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Post by xylon on Sept 16, 2013 4:59:43 GMT -5
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Post by domindart on Sept 16, 2013 5:02:08 GMT -5
Sounds narly. Maybe just turn clockwise, ay?  |
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Post by domindart on Sept 16, 2013 5:02:37 GMT -5
just kidding..... sorry... got nothing (8)
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Post by pmatulew on Sept 16, 2013 5:37:53 GMT -5
It's the stater gears and the starter. You're turning against the direction of the one way sprag clutch and forcing the starter to turn.
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Post by xylon on Sept 16, 2013 6:26:16 GMT -5
So I'm turning the engine in the wrong direction? My manual says to turn it anti-clockwise (when adjusting valve clearances).
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Post by xylon on Sept 16, 2013 6:37:45 GMT -5
Maybe I'm turning it in the right direction but the sprag clutch provides a small amount of engagement in the reverse direction at low speed. I haven't looked at the clutch but wikipedia sais: `The sprags are spring-loaded so that they lock with very little backlash.' so maybe the small pressure of the springs is enough to turn the starter gears at low speed?
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Post by xylon on Sept 16, 2013 7:59:01 GMT -5
OK I just verified anti-clockwize is the normal direction of engine rotation. Then I tried turning it as fast as I can with the spark plug removed and it still makes the sound so I guess my theory is wrong.
Actually I think the sound is coming from inside the transmission case itself. But on this scooter you can't remove the transmission case without removing the floor panel and you can't remove the floor panel without removing the inner front panel, belly panel and body panels and you can't remove the inner front panel without removing the upper front panel and you can't remove the upper front panel without removing the front handlebar cover and you can't remove the body panels without removing the centre panel, storage box and luggage rack and you can't remove the storage box without removing the seat. So to open the transmission case is like a two hour job, and another two hours to put it back together again.
If it's coming from inside the transmission case is it something to worry about?
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Post by pmatulew on Sept 16, 2013 11:54:21 GMT -5
"The knee bone's connected to the...."  How are you accessing the variator nut if you can't get the transmission cover off? Maybe we have a terminology disconnect. It may also depend on which type of motor you have. Which model scoot is this? On most GY6's the CVT "transmission" is on the left side and can only be accessed by removing the entire cover. (unless you have some sort of mini access panel that you can stick a wrench through?) The engines rotate forward, (anti-clockwise from the left) to drive the variator pulley. The "transmission" consists of two pulley assemblies and a belt The reduction gearing "transmission" is in a small compartment near the rear wheel and has a couple metal gears and layshafts. None of that should be moving while rotating the engine by hand. Which "transmission" case are you referring to? The sprag clutch shouldn't make any noise when turned in the correct direction. Certainly not like this. Unless it's completely jammed and you're constantly driving the starter motor. (Hard to imagine it would run that way.) As best I can tell the sound is either squeaky or grating, and relatively high pitched. Metallic? Does the motor run this way? If it's squeaky could it be the belt rubbing on the pulleys? Could there be something floating around inside the CVT cover that the variator pulley is rubbing on? If it's grating, could there be an issue with the timing chain? Maybe the guides are worn through? Whatever it is it can't be good. |
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Post by sailracer on Sept 16, 2013 11:57:36 GMT -5
I would think so
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Post by xylon on Sept 16, 2013 14:46:28 GMT -5
"The knee bone's connected to the...." How are you accessing the variator nut if you can't get the transmission cover off? Maybe we have a terminology disconnect. It may also depend on which type of motor you have. Which model scoot is this? Is a Honda PS125i and there is a plastic cover containing a sponge air filter over the variator (since the variator has a centrifugal fan on the back). That's how I can access the variator nut. On most GY6's the CVT "transmission" is on the left side and can only be accessed by removing the entire cover. (unless you have some sort of mini access panel that you can stick a wrench through?) The engines rotate forward, (anti-clockwise from the left) to drive the variator pulley. The "transmission" consists of two pulley assemblies and a belt The reduction gearing "transmission" is in a small compartment near the rear wheel and has a couple metal gears and layshafts. None of that should be moving while rotating the engine by hand. Correct, none of that rotates because the centrifugal clutch is disengaged. Which "transmission" case are you referring to? The sprag clutch shouldn't make any noise when turned in the correct direction. Certainly not like this. Unless it's completely jammed and you're constantly driving the starter motor. (Hard to imagine it would run that way.) As best I can tell the sound is either squeaky or grating, and relatively high pitched. Metallic? Does the motor run this way? It sounds metalic. Yes the engine runs totally fine I did 26 miles yesturday. The noise disappears when I start the engine. If it's squeaky could it be the belt rubbing on the pulleys? Could there be something floating around inside the CVT cover that the variator pulley is rubbing on? If it's grating, could there be an issue with the timing chain? Maybe the guides are worn through? Whatever it is it can't be good. I noticed the transmission cover gets quite hot (feels about 50'C). Is this normal? The centre of the heat is over the centrifugal clutch. I'm wondering maybe the clutch nut fell off and the clutch drum is only being held on by the case, constantly scraping? |
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Post by pmatulew on Sept 16, 2013 19:50:13 GMT -5
Well, that explains that. I expect they put the an access panel over the variator because the removing the body work is so involved. --> www.mediafire.com/download/4k7t463jovyx095/Manuale+Officina+-+Honda+Sh-%40-Pantheon-Dylan+125-150.pdfI know, wrong language, but the pictures are pretty. Page 13: Remove the cover of the transmission. Unscrew the central nut while holding the drive shaft with a wrench. The half-pulley and remove the belt released. Remove the other half pulley block with ramp and roller bushing. Unscrew the nut of the centrifugal clutch Page 44 has the exploded view of the cover. Are you sure it won't come off without removing all the body work? The clutch bell is splined to the output gears so that shouldn't be moving unless the rear wheel is, so that's out. If the belt was extra snug for some reason and dragging the inner part of the clutch around you would think it would be more obvious where the noise was coming from. |
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Post by xylon on Sept 17, 2013 7:03:27 GMT -5
Opened up the transmission this morning. Turned out I didn't need to remove the floor panel. I could get it of by taking all the panels off the rear of the scooter, the belly panel, the left hand passenger footrest and the air filter. Possibly didn't need to remove even that much but it might be hard if I didn't.
ANyway; it turns out it was just the drive belt squeaking on the pulleys. Drive belt is about 2000 miles old, width measures within the service limit, drive faces clean. No foreign bodies in there. I guess it's fine.
Celebration? ^)
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Post by pmatulew on Sept 17, 2013 11:42:44 GMT -5
Oh definitely! Good news is always cause for celebration. Sometimes it's just the peace of mind to be able to say, "Oh that noise? It's nothing to worry about."
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