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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 21:58:12 GMT -5
Scoot runs great from stop to wot....but there doesnt seem to be any more umph between 80 and 100 % throttle. If i back off a bit and go back to wot nothing changes. What seems to be the issue? Racing CDI, NGK irridium and has orange coil installed.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jul 11, 2013 1:30:08 GMT -5
Redroush00,
I think what you're describing is not all THAT unusual. I know on my own 150, which has similar upgrades to yours, there is VERY little difference between 80% and WOT. A slight change in pitch, a little harder air-intake "sucking" but little more speed. If I just hold around 80% throttle, the scoot levels off at around 48-50 mph. Go to WOT, and it S-L-O-W-L-Y creeps up to maybe 52-54 mph, but it takes a while. No instant "go"... LOL! At 80% throttle, I believe these little 9hp engines are at their full "sweet-spot" with VERY little left to give. Only VERY patient tweaking of variator, rollers/sliders weights, and as a last resort, changing final gears is likely to provide much more after that 80%. We just plain run out of displacement, horsepower and general "giddyup"... There's just no REPLACEMENT for DISPLACEMENT.I'm reminded of that whenever I ride someone's full-size motorcycle and gently roll on the throttle... the speedo FLYS past 55 to 70, 80,  , 100... and on up to as fast as an old geezer wants to go (or FASTER)... Then, I get on my scoot, and shoot briskly past 35, 45, then... not much left. Slowly creep to 50 and with no hills, and no wind, on the level, maybe get to 53-54 mph. Cheesh! Where are those extra 60 mph more? Ah, now I remember! They're tucked inside the 250 hp motor on that "other" bike... LOL! You know, the one with all the cylinders and gears... HeHeHe...There IS a little something left on the scoots between 80% and WOT... But it ain't much, and you have to search for it. I best enjoy running at about 80% throttle, and working it a little to make the variator earn its keep... These CVT trannies perform about the same at full-throttle, or, quite a bit less. Revs just change some with hills and wind. I've done all the experimenting with rollers I'm going to do. 13-grams were TOO heavy, giving me 55 mph, but poor acceleration and lugging at low speed. 12-grams were too light, giving great acceleration, but top speed of 45 or so, at over 9K rpm. A mix of 3 12's and 3 13's is in Bubba now, and seems the BEST setup for rollers... Great acceleration, good in-town rpm, top end of 53-54 mph at about 8,200 rpm. Alleyoop recommended trying Dr. Pulley 13-gram SLIDERS to maximize everything, and I have some on order. I think sliders do offer some distinct advantages over rollers... Even BETTER acceleration, and even HIGHER top speed, at a reasonable rpm. As soon as I get them in, I'll post the results. (I'm using a Prodigy variator) which is larger-diameter than a stock one.)My "Lil' Bubba" will get me to Wally World, or church, or the next town as well as a 600 hp crotch-rocket, or a 2,000 hp street rod. And on surface streets, JUST AS FAST! ...and, a WHOLE lot cheaper!!! I think we just gotta love these little wheezers for what they are, not what we wish they were. In all honesty, they do miracles with less than 10 hp. Just my experience...Leo in Texas PS: Yours looks SO good now, I'd be happy with anything over 50 mph... Go slow enough to give gawkers a good "80%-squint" at it!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 6:05:19 GMT -5
LOL I just may do that!
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Post by prodigit on Jul 11, 2013 7:58:01 GMT -5
I presume it is possible on some bikes, with heightened needle, that the needle is fully out of the jet at that 80% level, and you are only getting faster because of the increase of air (running leaner), but not fuel (as it's already maxed out). It might be a possibility too.
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Post by larry001964 on Jul 11, 2013 8:05:05 GMT -5
Hi redroush00
I tend to think you have reached a near balance between the torque your engine can produce and the resistances you are encountering. Resistance Ie, your weight, bikes weight, wind resistance, and road your driving over. Once you reach that balance no amount of increasing the throttle will give you any more, as your engine is doing all it can with the given components you have in it..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 8:20:11 GMT -5
Most likely right. Theres no needle adjustment on my carbs to tweak any more out of it.
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Post by millsc on Jul 11, 2013 8:23:49 GMT -5
time for the big bore kit  |
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Post by larry001964 on Jul 11, 2013 8:40:10 GMT -5
DX
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Post by jerseyboy on Jul 11, 2013 8:43:44 GMT -5
Mine did the same thing real bad when new,,after mods its much better maybe % and WOT I cant tell much unless I back of throttle and goose it in that range,,I can hear the exhaust change and get a little throatier,,but thats about it,,Im not 100% sure why they do this yet,,but I know it improved with the UNI,exhaust,and up jetting very much! Maybe messing with the cv diaphragm air inlet/outlet might have an effect but I have not tried yet. I got 13g sliders and they are ok,,not much difference,,maybe a little more out of the hole,,but seems like I lost some on hills and top speed is a few more,,so to me I like the stock 13g rollers better,,I ordered some performance 13g rollers,,dont like the sliders save your money...Im a 175 lbs BTW. |
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Post by ltdhpp on Jul 11, 2013 11:56:14 GMT -5
Did it used to have power past 80% ?
Hot air holds less oxygen, so you may not be getting enough to burn all the fuel at WOT since its gotten hotter outside.
I find myself dropping the main jet needle one notch in the summer, raising it one in the winter. Might be worth a shot...
Or, if your stock airbox has a inlet snorkel cap, try pulling that out and see if it changes. Or you can always try an aftermarket air filter.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 12:01:14 GMT -5
My needle is not adjustable. If i pull the snorkel face off it falls on its face. Been like this from stock to mild mods.
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Post by ltdhpp on Jul 11, 2013 17:50:15 GMT -5
That sucks... I'd go ahead and get a replacement carb that you can make adjustments and play with jet sizes too... especially since you have that shiny pipe on there! (that i didn't notice before...)
I bet if you get it more fuel it will run better with that cap off.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 19:54:49 GMT -5
Its actually a bit rich now.
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Post by ltdhpp on Jul 12, 2013 10:22:27 GMT -5
How do you figure? Seems unusual for something with a sealed/nonadjustable carb and aftermarket pipe to be running rich.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 10:43:55 GMT -5
Cap drilled out so its a bit adjustable. Plug chops show slight black.
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, 100... and on up to as fast as an old geezer wants to go (or FASTER)... Then, I get on my scoot, and shoot briskly past 35, 45, then... not much left. Slowly creep to 50 and with no hills, and no wind, on the level, maybe get to 53-54 mph. Cheesh! Where are those extra 60 mph more? Ah, now I remember! They're tucked inside the 250 hp motor on that "other" bike... LOL! You know, the one with all the cylinders and gears... HeHeHe...
