Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 164
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Joined: Mar 11, 2013 13:12:11 GMT -5
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Post by gitsum on Jun 10, 2013 0:38:10 GMT -5
you'll be able to take the pulse of your scoot just by riding it. At a level of intimacy unknown by those who have never turned a wrench. I agree 100%. But you can get that same level of pleasure and mechanical prowess from owning and riding a Honda, Yamaha or SYM. I do all of the maintenance myself, none of my machines have ever been to a dealer. All have been tweaked and modified, some more than others... |
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Post by spandi on Jun 10, 2013 0:41:10 GMT -5
you'll be able to take the pulse of your scoot just by riding it. At a level of intimacy unknown by those who have never turned a wrench. I agree 100%. But you can get that same level of pleasure and mechanical prowess from owning and riding a Honda, Yamaha or SYM. I do all of the maintenance myself, none of my machines have ever been to a dealer. Al have been tweaked and modified, some more than others... Look at Trailhead Mike's posting. Out of all the people at a scoot meet up in NYC he was the only one who turned a wrench. |
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Post by spandi on Jun 10, 2013 0:44:39 GMT -5
Most people who own a "Brand Name" scoot under warranty just let the dealer worry about it. (until I got my Chinese Znen 250 I could NOT have told you what was under the plastic....Now I can tell you in my sleep ;D )
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Post by scootnwinn on Jun 10, 2013 13:39:28 GMT -5
Look at Trailhead Mike's posting. Out of all the people at a scoot meet up in NYC he was the only one who turned a wrench. Now hold on a second Trailhead mike said... ...with a few older models (restored and un restored), some 1960s unrestored Lambrettas,...only ME with the Vog to represent the chinese scooter owner. We spoke a lot about service, and I got a lot of props for doing my own work. The Lambretta guys rebuilt their own scoots, but I was surprised that virtually no one ever picked up a wrench, not even to string up an led light... I'm assuming the Lambretta guys know what a wrench is. Nuff said right? |
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Post by spandi on Jun 10, 2013 14:30:41 GMT -5
I would say a more accurate statement would be "The Lambretta guys HAD their scoots rebuilt" Why else would he follow the first part of the sentence with: "but I was surprised that virtually NO ONE ever picked up a wrench, not even to string up an led light."
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Post by scootnwinn on Jun 10, 2013 14:35:56 GMT -5
Big word there virtually VIRTUAULLY no one. I must say spandi I do enjoy arguing with you. Ride hard fellow scooterist, it's good to see someone else paying attention...
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Post by spandi on Jun 10, 2013 14:44:40 GMT -5
Let's just call it a sharing of ideas and opinions shall we? ;D
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Post by scootnwinn on Jun 10, 2013 14:50:32 GMT -5
Absolutely, I think the exchange is helpful to someone in the midst of a decision... I know you love to ride as much as I do and I don't care what you ride, I would be honored to share the road with you. Even if you showed up on a Harley
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Post by spandi on Jun 10, 2013 14:55:02 GMT -5
Yeah, this kind of Harley.  |
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Post by hank on Jun 10, 2013 15:03:18 GMT -5
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Post by scootnwinn on Jun 10, 2013 15:11:17 GMT -5
I would roll either of those for sure
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Post by spandi on Jun 10, 2013 15:57:11 GMT -5
Vintage Harley scoots...sweet! Thanks for the input Hank.
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Post by larry001964 on Jun 10, 2013 20:38:21 GMT -5
I am not saying all Chinese scooters are a total P.O.S. like a $695 internet special. But the fact remains, even the so called "better" Chinese scooter (like Znen is supposed to be) does not use the same grade metal as Taiwanese or Japanese scooter manufacturers. Plain and simple, mile for mile a Kymco, Genuine or Sym engine will on average far outlast anything Chinese manufactured. Some of these Taiwanese offer budget models that are assembled in China to cut labor costs. If they are making the effort to lower the price, why then do they still use Taiwanese manufactured engines? If a Chinese engine is just as good, why would they not use that and offer even a lower price? There's a very good reason for that, and you guys know it. Are Chinese scooters much improved these days? Maybe. Will a Chinese scooter offer reasonable service life? Well, compared to what they used to be, if you think reaching 10k-15k is good, then yes. But now that a "budget" Taiwanese scooter only costs 25% - 50% more than a "better" Chinese scooter, and it will last at least 2 to 3 times longer, how are you saving money (and time) with a Znen? Really, it's simple math... Gitsum, where do you get your math ? I em asking where you are getting your figures as to longevity ? From what I'm seeing Kymco don't last any longer than any other Chinese scooter.. The only exception Ive seen is Aprila, they do very much seem to last.. Where I live, many ride scooters, where I work is in a small town surrounded by other small towns 20 to 30 miles away.. Many many guys ride their scooters from these small towns to my job.. I have seen many a kymco go down with major problems such as rods knocking, failed oil pumps, ect.. A few i have fixed and have seen the inside of those 139's.. I can tell you I saw no difference in actual engine than the Chinese 139, nor did I see any difference in the metals used in their manufacture, and engine failure rates seem to be about the same... |
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Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 164
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Joined: Mar 11, 2013 13:12:11 GMT -5
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Post by gitsum on Jun 10, 2013 21:49:05 GMT -5
Well since you doubt the math, here's something time consuming you could try. Compare all the posts concerning scooter mileage on this forum with one of the SYM, Genuine or Kymco forums. I'm pretty certain you will see right away there is a big difference in total mileage reported on a Chinese scooter vs. a Taiwanese one.
Another thing to check would be the percentage of posts concerning a failure or breakdown vs. other reasons. I haven't specifically tallied that up, but from just being a member in several forums, I see many more posts in here about mechanical issues rather then people talking about other aspects of riding a scooter. In the Taiwanese or Japanese scooter forums I see more posts talking about other scooter related stuff and much less about mechanical issues.
Over the last several years I've owned 8 scooters. Two of those were Chinese, the other six Taiwanese or Japanese. I am very strict and thorough about maintenance and proper tuning. And yes, I did give both Chinese scooters an infamous Chinese style PDI, replacing some parts from the very start.
I think it's pretty obvious what my overall impressions of a Chinese scooter are...
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Post by larry001964 on Jun 10, 2013 22:37:16 GMT -5
Well since you doubt the math, here's something time consuming you could try. Compare all the posts concerning scooter mileage on this forum with one of the SYM, Genuine or Kymco forums. I'm pretty certain you will see right away there is a big difference in total mileage reported on a Chinese scooter vs. a Taiwanese one. Another thing to check would be the percentage of posts concerning a failure or breakdown vs. other reasons. I haven't specifically tallied that up, but from just being a member in several forums, I see many more posts in here about mechanical issues rather then people talking about other aspects of riding a scooter. In the Taiwanese or Japanese scooter forums I see more posts talking about other scooter related stuff and much less about mechanical issues. Over the last several years I've owned 8 scooters. Two of those were Chinese, the other six Taiwanese or Japanese. I am very strict and thorough about maintenance and proper tuning. And yes, I did give both Chinese scooters an infamous Chinese style PDI, replacing some parts from the very start. I think it's pretty obvious what my overall impressions of a Chinese scooter are... Ok that's fair, wanted to know what you were basing your opinion on.. Kymcos as Ive seen aren't any better than the Chinese scoots, but I can't speak for the other brands as I have no personal knowledge of their longevity... I have seen Aprilia's a few have them, almost never any problems at all.. And I really can't use Fawkes as a fair example, Ive really beat and abused that poor little guy, even as a 95cc stroker I pushed and abused him far beyond his design limits... |
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Very cool
