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Post by w650 on Apr 14, 2017 17:06:00 GMT -5
I think the problem here is there is little common ground between bikers and scooter owners. One hypothesis is that bikers are related to the cowboys of the past while scooter owners are auto drivers seeking better gas mileage.
Cyborg's point of view comes from his motorcyclist side. As the video shows a motorcycle is faster, handles better and is a thrill ride. It also shows that the BMW is a useful carrier of cargo, an excellent around town machine with its automatic transmission and a comfortable ride on the road.
The person who chooses either over the other has leanings only one of the machines satisfies. Horses for courses.
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Post by spandi on Apr 14, 2017 21:06:51 GMT -5
Well it turns out that Corradino D'ascanio (The designer of the Vespa) hated motorcycles, and made the Vespa, using aircraft techniques, as more of a two wheeled car. The roads and infrastructure in Italy at that time having been blown to pieces by allied bombing during the war. But the social differences could also be put down to the mid-sixties dichotomy between the "Rockers" and "Mods" in the UK at that time.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Apr 15, 2017 1:25:07 GMT -5
Cyborg's point of view comes from his motorcyclist side. As the video shows a motorcycle is faster, handles better and is a thrill ride. i could label my 250 a thrill ride. with an extra 50 to 100cc, it would probably be the most i would ever need. i like the idea of having to negotiate twisties without the worry of gearing. i'm actually surprised the chinese 244 and 257 don't sell like hotcakes. my 244 sported a 13 inch rear tire and a 63 inch wheelbase, with a stated curb weight of 350 pounds. the estimated top speed was around 70MPH. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 15, 2017 9:28:47 GMT -5
But consider that the motorcycle equivalent when your scooter was built was either a Honda Rebel or Kawasaki Ninja. The Ninja put out twice the ponies and peaked at 94 mph. Even a good running Rebel would do 80 mph. With manual gearboxes and positive drive they both accelerate harder and are better balanced.
Yes a scooter has storage and is easier to ride but at any capacity it's at a disadvantage to an equivalent sized bike.
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Post by cyborg55 on Apr 15, 2017 11:38:24 GMT -5
I love my Stella,,,for putting around ,,going to get groceries,coffee or just plain oldie going for a joy ride,,,and I've taken it on a couple 100+ mile rides,,,,,good stuff,,,I'll get another Stella if I can find a 2 t or a px150 or 200 2t,that the seller doesn't want my left arm and leg too,, I lean motorcycle but I'm not apposed to a decent scooter,,,one of my beefs with scooters is the prices ( keep in mind I'm a seriously cheap bastard and have an allergic reaction to msrp),, for me I see no advantage to paying crazy money for a scooter when I can find a more capable ride in a full sized bike,,,and for less money,,,not that there aren't great deals to be had on new leftover scooters of any size ,,,the deals are out there,,,the only beef I have (and it's a small pick believe me) is you generally can't get the color you like,,,,but occasionally the planets and stars align and you get lucky,,,my Stella for little more than half price in the color I was looking for
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Post by spandi on Apr 15, 2017 12:07:32 GMT -5
"Allergic reaction to MSRP" HaHaHaHa! (I'll have remember that one.) I had issues with the paint colour on my scooter, but a rattle can paint job plus U-POL British made UV clearcoat, with some serious buffing and it shimmers like glass.
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Post by cyborg55 on Apr 15, 2017 13:51:44 GMT -5
I always have been amazed at people wanting a "low center of gravity" when just the opposite is what makes a bike stable,,, take a baseball bat and put the big end down in the palm of your hand and try and balance it,,,after you conk yourself in the noggin 2or3 times turn the bat over and balance it with the knob in your palm of your hand,,, easy Peary baby!!!!,,, honda found out the hard way on that one,,,they made a couple moto GP bikes with the fuel tanks under the bike,,, an utter disaster and massive failure,,,it was cured with a few judicious firings ,,,,
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Post by pistonguy on Apr 15, 2017 19:58:24 GMT -5
Cyborg's point of view comes from his motorcyclist side. As the video shows a motorcycle is faster, handles better and is a thrill ride. i could label my 250 a thrill ride. with an extra 50 to 100cc, it would probably be the most i would ever need. i like the idea of having to negotiate twisties without the worry of gearing. i'm actually surprised the chinese 244 and 257 don't sell like hotcakes. my 244 sported a 13 inch rear tire and a 63 inch wheelbase, with a stated curb weight of 350 pounds. the estimated top speed was around 70MPH. Oh gosh the worry of gearing? Grab a handful of scooter throttle and nothing happens, Hitting the twists on a Scoot is so boring I can hardly stay awake. were is my Starbucks? 6 speed close ratio on the pipe. 380lbs, 157rwhp. 0-60 in 1.9 sec. nice long 86mph first gear, the next five like push button, come out of a high twisty and launch the front end skyward, now Im awake and feel more alive than ever |
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Post by pistonguy on Apr 15, 2017 20:01:31 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Apr 16, 2017 6:44:01 GMT -5
I just saw this. It might be another reason large displacement scooters aren't so popular.
So here is an update on my Burgman 650 that the CVT belt broke on quite a few months ago. Finally saved up some $ and brought it to the only Suzuki dealer within an hour of me Spaceport Cycles in Titusville Fl. I was told it would cost $1100 for the repair ($400 for belt and $700 for labor) which seemed reasonable. I was told when I dropped it off it would take 3 weeks, 1 to tear it down, 1 to order parts, 1 to put back together. Seemed a little excessive for a dealer but after waiting for several months I figured, what's 3 more weeks. I called after the first week to get an update and was told they hadn't started but would be first on the list on Tuesday. Two more weeks went past with no word, so I called this past Wednesday and once again was told they hadn't started on it yet, but was first on the list for the following morning, I told them if it wasn't I was going to come and pick it up. I called the following day to hear yet another excuse but was told they had to talk to their mechanic who was on a test ride to find out what was going on and would get a call back. At this point I figured as usual I wouldn't get a call back as I had been promised so many times before, but 10 minutes later I got a call telling me it would be done/finished tomorrow on Friday, I waited until a half hour before closing and asked why I didn't get a call and was told "it was a very eventful day here" and the bike was almost finished just had to put a few things back together and would definitely be finished first thing in the morning and I would be getting a call in the morning. We'll Saturday has come and to no surprise I didn't get a call.
This is the reason I almost always do my own repairs on everything, I hate this feeling of helplessness, being at their mercy, and this is a place that had all good reviews, and recommendations from coworkers who live in the area. Unfortunately it is an hour away or I would have been at their door a long time ago. Can't wait for Tuesdays excuse, of course they're closed on Monday so I have to wait some more.
I understand why people go "postal" sometimes.
I don't care if it was going to take a few more weeks, just wish they would be honest and stop playing me for a fool.
— feeling aggravated.
$400 for a belt? $700 for labor. Yikes!
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Post by Jarlaxle on Apr 16, 2017 7:06:28 GMT -5
If you go to a dealer, you will pay about retail plus 50% for everything.
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Post by cyborg55 on Apr 16, 2017 9:24:59 GMT -5
HOLY SHIZZLE!!!!! My eyes almost popped out of my head reading that ,,,Just cruised eBay low end belt $79 free shipping ,,$370 for the high end with most settling in around $140-160,,,thank goodness I do my own work,,I haven't paid anyone to work on my stuff in decades ,,,I'm sure I'd faint if I saw the labor rates at a dealers service shop,,,I hate to say it but I think that guy got raked over the coals,,when I got my dr I changed the gearing ,,new JT tool steel sprockets front counter and rear with a 520 DID racing chain for under $150 out the door,,,saved 7 pounds because the oem chain was a 525,,,
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Apr 16, 2017 10:07:02 GMT -5
Yes a scooter has storage and is easier to ride but at any capacity it's at a disadvantage to an equivalent sized bike. i don't think it's any more of a disadvantage than an car automatic over a manual. you hardly ever see a manual shift in a car anymore. one thing seems to be clear though, a manual shift tranny is an advantage when dealing with heavy loads. almost all race cars are manual shift, and i believe all semis are manual shift. but we aren't talking about such heavy loads. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 16, 2017 10:19:35 GMT -5
A scooter, excepting certain ones with separate engine/drive configuration, will always be at a disadvantage in terms of handling. The engine in a scooter is directly under the rider which gives it something like a 70/30 weight distribution. A motorcycle has it further forward putting weight distribution at close to 50/50. Also most scooters are belt drive leading to friction loss. Bikes all have solid drive. Scooters have trunks, bikes don't which is what makes a scooter a better grocery getter against a bike with no rear trunk or saddlebags.
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Post by w650 on Apr 16, 2017 10:35:39 GMT -5
As previously noted, a scooter was conceived as a two wheeled car. A motorcycle wasn't.
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