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Post by pistonguy on Apr 10, 2017 8:46:54 GMT -5
All Manufactures spend allot of money on Market Research, the days of coming up with a product, put it into production then marketing and see what happens are long gone.
The Market dictates.
Ive seen many on these Scooter boards that there first experience with Two wheels has been one of these Scooters, they buy one,like it , decide they really like riding and eventually purchase a entry level full size MC and we don't see them around here anymore.
Most getting off a 150 or hot rodded 150 to a 250cc or larger Scooter just isn't that attractive compared to a entry level full size MC.
I live in a Licker Sickle state were its 50cc, max 30mph no license or insurance required so it's a bunch of people who lost there license due to multiple DUI's, its rare to see a 150cc around here and very rare to see anything larger.
Ive come full circle, I've been on full size bikes for more than 45 years and I still own a full size Sport bike, my interest in Scooters came from my Scuba Diving travels in third world countries wear Scooter were everywhere, Ive rented them all over the world, I bought one just for the fun as a hobby, a grocery getter, and I love to build so all the cheap aftermarket hot rod parts attracted me also.
I will own a full size bike as long as I can throw a leg over it and still plan on keeping my Scooter as a hobby for a long time.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Apr 10, 2017 8:53:51 GMT -5
Speaking of missing the point why in heavens name would the scooter cannon ball ralley dismiss motorcycles?,,, because they are superior in every way that's why,,,my standard dr dualsport would kick a scooters so hard it would wear it like a hat (which has never been challenged by the way) $10,000 bux cash challenge,,, LA to San Fran and back 5 laps of a motocross track ride up to San Fran,,, 5 laps of another motocross track there,,, service ride,,,5 laps again on the return lap ride back to LA and 5 laps of another motocross track ,,, guess who wins,,, think about it,,, I got less than $2 large in my dr,,,, hands down no takers,,,, scooters are fun and all gang but they ain't up to the task it's always been my contention that you usually get what you pay for. if you want 30,000 mile infallibility, then you'll pay for it. scooters (at least the ones i'm familiar with) are pretty simple mechanically the electrics are also pretty simple. all i'm looking for in a scooter is to ride it, and ride it hard, without gears. oh, and for a heads up, it's very likely my chinese 250 gave up the ghost because of my own stupidity, not by any defect in the mechanics. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 10, 2017 11:17:58 GMT -5
I don't know that a scooter is simpler to maintain. My story: If you read across the scooter world the grudging acknowledgement is that the Honda Helix was the best scooter ever made. So I bought the best made Chinese clone of it, the CF Moto Fashion. It's not the Chinese part of it that's a pain in the neck. Ten inch tires that wear out quickly and are pretty expensive. One thousand mile oil changes. A rear end oil filler that you have to remove the lower skirt and engine cover to get to. Ten thousand miles changes on a kevlar belt if you want peace of mind.
All of these would also be done on a REAL Honda Helix. Place that next to my Honda Rebel. The valves were adjusted at the 600 mile service and have stayed in adjustment. Two or three thousand mile oil changes, six or seven thousand miles on equally priced tires and one chain adjustment in 10,000 miles. OK, I have to lube the chain every two hundred but that's an easy five minute job at worst.
The only thing that makes a scooter easier is not shifting. After that a bike is an easier companion.
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Post by bandito2 on Apr 10, 2017 13:40:11 GMT -5
Speaking of missing the point why in heavens name would the scooter cannon ball ralley dismiss motorcycles?,,, because they are superior in every way that's why,,,my standard dr dualsport would kick a scooters so hard it would wear it like a hat (which has never been challenged by the way) $10,000 bux cash challenge,,, LA to San Fran and back 5 laps of a motocross track ride up to San Fran,,, 5 laps of another motocross track there,,, service ride,,,5 laps again on the return lap ride back to LA and 5 laps of another motocross track ,,, guess who wins,,, think about it,,, I got less than $2 large in my dr,,,, hands down no takers,,,, scooters are fun and all gang but they ain't up to the task Of course they're not up to the task... for what you were wanting to do, but mainly that is not what scooters are made to do. They are mostly commuters, not generally for off road or track racing, though they can be modified to do some of that, admittedly to a lesser degree. Apples to oranges there... folks don't take the family minivan on hill climbs and rock crawls either nor would any sane person take on a challenge like that against vehicles designed and equipped to do such things. Scooters have their own place in the motoring world; simpler, lighter,easier to operate in many ways than larger motorcycles. To each his own as the saying goes. Want to do more to go faster and further?... get a bigger bike like a maxi-scooter or motorcycle to do that. But not all want or need a bigger bike and prefer the simplicity of scooters for the particular type of riding they want to do at the time. The Scooter Cannonball Run is a challenge designed for scooters and their riders (mostly 50cc to 250cc), not motorcycles. That is why they do not include/invite/allow motorcycles into their challenge because much larger maxi-scooters and motorcycles would have an obvious advantage. I think we can still get the Honda Forza NSS300 here in North America. (279cc actually) |
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Post by w650 on Apr 10, 2017 19:15:56 GMT -5
I think the problem here is there is little common ground between bikers and scooter owners. One hypothesis is that bikers are related to the cowboys of the past while scooter owners are auto drivers seeking better gas mileage.
I have both but I lean mostly towards my biker side. Here's my biggest sticking point. Cost.
In 2008 my late wife and I picked up her Honda Rebel for $3350. At the time both the Helix and Reflex were going for $5500. (Don't start with the "Oh, you could chew them down on the scooters." We're talking straight up MSRP.)
I stand on this rock. No scooter will last as long or stand up to day to day use better than a Rebel. Yes, I have to shift, but with bags and a windshield it is just as useful.
To a biker it's a no brainer. To a scooter devotee the $2000 is worth it. It's not just apples-oranges, it's points of view.
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Post by wheelbender6 on Apr 10, 2017 20:22:19 GMT -5
I agree about the longevity of the Rebel. They just keep on running.
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Post by Jarlaxle on Apr 11, 2017 17:20:18 GMT -5
The rebel is an ancient, cramped throwback to 1975...it exists for MSF an little else.
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Post by w650 on Apr 11, 2017 19:22:25 GMT -5
Cramped if you're taller than 5' 10". Otherwise it's a great bike without any sins. Fuel mileage around 70 mpg and quick enough from a stop. I wouldn't flinch on taking it on a Tour. With the its bags and windshield mine would be good for any trip. Not to mention that the original design was virtually untouched but refined for a mere 30 years. With its simple design and durable nature it would last as long as anyone would want to keep it.
There are very few scooters that can make that claim. It reminds me of a 650cc TR-6 Triumph.
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Post by cyborg55 on Apr 11, 2017 21:25:20 GMT -5
Some scooters can pull it off,, 4 guys entered the Paris/Dakar race in 1980 with 4 px200's,,, mild building on them with a frame brace and bigger fuel tank,,, pretty bold move,,, they were the laughing stock at the start of the race,, one dropped out early ,,, Half way thru the race no one was laughing,,, and it looked like the 3 that were left might finish with a 75% success rate when factory teams were lucky to get 27% ,,, another one broke before the finish,,,but a 50% finish rate was fabulous,,, they were the heros of the race,,
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Post by spandi on Apr 11, 2017 21:36:18 GMT -5
Some scooters can pull it off,, 4 guys entered the Paris/Dakar race in 1980 with 4 px200's,,, mild building on them with a frame brace and bigger fuel tank,,, pretty bold move,,, they were the laughing stock at the start of the race,, one dropped out early ,,, Half way thru the race no one was laughing,,, and it looked like the 3 that were left might finish with a 75% success rate when factory teams were lucky to get 27% ,,, another one broke before the finish,,,but a 50% finish rate was fabulous,,, they were the heros of the race,, Doncha love it when the underdawg wins? |
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Post by w650 on Apr 12, 2017 9:11:32 GMT -5
I saw pictures over at MV of guys using and finishing the Barstow to Vegas ride on Chinese scooters. They figured if they broke them it was no big deal so they flogged them over the course. And finished.
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Post by w650 on Apr 12, 2017 16:24:30 GMT -5
Here's an honest comparison. The best scooter in America against motorcycle competition.
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Freshman Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 50
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Joined: Mar 15, 2013 13:24:36 GMT -5
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Post by cookietin on Apr 13, 2017 17:18:21 GMT -5
For those interested... I emailed Superiorpowersports on March 14 asking when they might again offer Chinese Maxi scooters, having dropped the BMS 260, and then offering for a short time the Roketa equivalent.
The reply I received back from 'Jaime' stated they would be getting the 260 Roketa 62A in 'very soon'.
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Post by cyborg55 on Apr 13, 2017 18:54:58 GMT -5
A lot of dough for no real advantage ,,, my Dr would eat it alive ,,,,But the doctor is modified with more horses and weights way less than half,,and only costs 1/3rd the cost of the bmw,,,,and at 349cc way better mpg
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Post by Jarlaxle on Apr 14, 2017 15:13:10 GMT -5
Comparimg a dual sport to a scooer is, charitably, ridiculous.
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