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Post by w650 on Jul 30, 2017 18:03:31 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Jul 29, 2017 19:04:42 GMT -5
I'm just saying that pinning the success of an entire market on one admittedly premium brand (which in the scooter market is a dichotomy unto itself) isn't realistic either.
Two words Matt-Harley Davidson. In 1980 Harley sold 83,000 bikes. Today it's around 250,000. Along the way they created the Cruiser market for other manufacturers to take advantage of and made S&S and JP Cycles rich.
I know that's not the way Piaggio does things, but hey, they don't even sell at the top of their genre in Italy. Honda Italy outsells them at the top of the standings with the SH-300 the last I've checked.
I don't know what the answer is but I do know that as long as Dealers and Distributors don't advertise scooters they will never achieve market penetration in this market.
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Post by w650 on Jul 27, 2017 18:30:12 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Jul 27, 2017 14:08:58 GMT -5
I'm trying to do my part by creating a reliable, recognizable and trustworthy parts and accessories source for the market.
I always tell people about my transmission shaft for the Fashion when I talk about you guys Matt. Ordered at Noon Tuesday and in my hot little hands by Ten A.M. Thursday. I don't know what China can do about that. Certainly not top it.
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Post by w650 on Jul 26, 2017 18:20:57 GMT -5
Heck, Piaggio left the country for a decade + at one point as the environment wasn't remotely tenable. Longer than that. Bankruptcy of Vespa's American importer due to two expensive product-liability lawsuits, increased competition from Japanese manufacturers, and certain states' passing so-called "green laws" caused a withdrawal from the US market in late 1981.
During 1981-2001, despite an absence of United States domestic sales, Vespas continued to have a core group of enthusiasts who kept vintage scooters on the road by rebuilding, restoring, and adding performance-enhancing engine parts as the stock parts would wear out.
Vespa returned to the US market in 2001 with a new, more modern style ET series, in 50 cc two and four stroke, and 150 cc four-stroke
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VespaI don't see how scooters will sell when they're anonymous. I see Harley and Indian ads all over NASCAR. There are enough small networks all over the thousand channels that something should be affordable to advertise. Kymco advertised in Cycle World magazine for a year or so. I see pop up ads for Powersportsmax all the time on my computers, of all things. Occasionally Parts for Scooters too. I'm betting that the Chinese prosper from rentals in Tourist Cities causing people to think about buying one when they get home. Connecticut is crawling with 50cc scooters from the dealers there.
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Post by w650 on Jul 25, 2017 16:54:15 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Jul 25, 2017 14:57:23 GMT -5
I stated the problems already for large scooters here Matt. itistheride.boards.net/thread/10293/scooter-scene-2017?page=1&scrollTo=128888Let's face it. 1) Large scooters are disappearing fast in this market and 50cc scooters account for 65% of sales. Good for those selling small scooters but bad for the faithful who want to move up to something bigger. 2) As it is scooters only sell one for every ten motorcycles. Factor in 65% for 50cc and large scooters are scratching for crumbs. Vespa just celebrated their 70th anniversary. Yet in all that time they haven't moved scooters to the mainstream in America. It would seem that the Chinese with their cheap 50cc scoots have become a presence. |
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Post by w650 on Jul 25, 2017 14:50:40 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Jul 24, 2017 17:13:10 GMT -5
It will all become moot if Honda delivers a DCT to the sub 500cc class. Most scooter owners simply hate to shift. If Honda also puts a cargo hold where the gas tank should be, like on the NC 700, scooters will be a hard sell. A small bike that shifts itself and has a little carrying capacity will be the ticket for most riders. Imagine a 300cc Honda Integra at a 150cc Primavera price.
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Post by w650 on Jul 23, 2017 14:40:04 GMT -5
motorscooterguide.net/Unfortunately the list of discontinued scooters is even longer. It includes 4 machines: Genuine’s Blur 220, Honda’s Forza, Suzuki’s Burgman 400 and Yamaha’s TMAX. Collectively, these four machines have 31 years of experience in the North American market.
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Post by w650 on Jul 23, 2017 12:39:01 GMT -5
This is 2017. Scooters should go 30,000 miles on one belt, not need rollers or a clutch.
I should have written "New Rollers and clutch". I understand the Piaggio BV-350 has some kind of a clutch pack for longer life which explains its price. Still the design on scooters is years old. I remember a Rokon trail bike from the mid seventies with a CVT. Eventually Dual Clutch Transmissions will replace them. The European Honda Integra is a scooter/motorcycle with it and is doing well over there.
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Post by w650 on Jul 22, 2017 22:50:52 GMT -5
I've read, seen the evidence and heard the chatter. Most, if not all, scooters have much shorter life expectancy than even the cheapest motorcycle. Scooters are not cheap to maintain and need a lot to stay alive.
but then again i'm beginning to wonder if i actually had a rebranded genuine honda engine.
the only things i did to the engine was installed an iridium plug and adjusted the valves.
the clutch shoes showed hardly any wear in 10,000 miles.
i replaced the variator twice, once because of my screwup.
the OEM rollers were garbage which destroyed the variator innards.
i would definitely get another like it if i could.
all in all, it was a pretty economical ride, everything i know about scooters i learned from it.
In 10,000 miles you had to at least replace the variator and probably the belt. I'm not talking about just 10,000 miles when I say longevity. I had one bike that did 125,000 on all original engine parts. Yes, tires and brakes but that was about it. It had shaft drive so no chain to take care of. It always cracks me up to hear Piaggio owners hawking 30,000 miles as an achievement. I have cars that topped 200,000 miles. Why is 30,000 miles even a thing? This is 2017. Scooters should go 30,000 miles on one belt, not need rollers or a clutch. Bikes go that far on chains and three times that far on a clutch. My 125,000 mile bike had the original clutch. |
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Post by w650 on Jul 22, 2017 10:28:47 GMT -5
I'm not saying that high mileage is impossible with a scooter. I just want to see the service records or a journal. I do say that a motorcycle with equal mileage would have much less work done. I'm not saying a scooter isn't handy. I'm contesting the comment that maintenance costs are lower. Not to mention all the routine finagling to tighten and replace objects rattled off by single cylinder engines. I recently pulled the seat to replace yet another dead battery from storage and found my air box disconnected because the box mounting bolt fell out. My bikes just don't do stupid things like that.
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Post by w650 on Jul 21, 2017 13:35:29 GMT -5
The owner of that BV 250 is Joe Blizman, a man in his 60s who has written glowing reports for years on his scooter. He has zero mechanical skills though and hasn't touched the bike himself, relying on his shop for maintenance. He has had strange issues with it, leaking fork seals and an occasional unsteady idle. I don't know why it's down now but I'm certain it isn't neglect or abuse.
My readings at Modern Vespa.com don't show unbelievable reliability among Piaggio products. The problem as I see it is what constitutes "maintained by the book". Very few people in this world perform every single maintenance item in the schedules on time or with intense devotion. You seem to have a incredible handle on what your Aprilia is feeling and how to soothe its needs. Very few people in this world today have the ability to "Hear your pistons going up and down in the cylinders".
I have dealt with the skepticism of my Chinese scooters being trouble free for years now. I know my machines, I can hear them complain and when they're happy. You and I aren't "Joe Average Citizen" so we have to disqualify ourselves on rating our scooters as "Bulletproof, utterly reliable or able to go 150,000 miles". Either that Rocky or accept what I've heard for almost nine years. "You must have gotten the one good one they ever made".
I've read, seen the evidence and heard the chatter. Most, if not all, scooters have much shorter life expectancy than even the cheapest motorcycle. Scooters are not cheap to maintain and need a lot to stay alive.
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Post by w650 on Jul 18, 2017 15:33:49 GMT -5
Leo, dude. I myself was a little skeptical about your claims but assumed there was more to the story than a bone stock Accord. Given what you now say it all makes sense.
Sometimes I read things on forums that have me pushing away from the computer before I write something caustic. The claims made occasionally are a little.....much. I could elaborate but you know what I mean.
At 70 years old, I outgrew that sophomoric crap 50 years ago.
I congratulate you on your maturity though. At 65 years years old, I still let myself get sucked into a few "Discussions".
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