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Post by rockynv on Feb 8, 2017 5:24:02 GMT -5
For some reason there aren't any marks on the flywheel. I had the cover off and couldn't find any. (Bought the bike used) Any other thoughts? I'd use a timing gun if I could get it running. The cover or just the small timing plug with the arrow that you align with the little notch/scratch on the surface of the flywheel. Its toward the back of the engine cover on the right hand side of the bike. Its only for valve timing and is not designed for use with a timing light for setting the ignition timing. The ECU/CDI takes care of the ignition timing automatically. You may have to clean some dirt/oil off the flywheel to uncover the mark. |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 7, 2017 12:44:40 GMT -5
Then you just need a new head and your good to go. Good news is great!
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Post by rockynv on Feb 7, 2017 5:43:17 GMT -5
JCL MP250A Lihai 257cc powered / Thank you Rocky and Bob1234. According to the diagram Bob123... turned me on to its a blind hole the seal sits in (besides the shaft coming thru center). Shouldn't be much danger of damaging much with this design . Can be done after variator off. No, I haven't taken the variator off yet Rocky. I've been working on getting my Bobber running To get it ready to sell. Thanks agian, I love knowing what I'm getting into on repairs like this. And I will look for any Crank case venting problems to boot . There is a lot of danger in causing damage to the metal surface of the shaft where the seal rides and while the bearing is on the crank and is located inside the crankcase the parts diagram in the manual does not clearly show how much clearance the shaft has where it goes through the case to the seal area or how much separation there is. Caution is still advisable until you have at least the rubber center of the seal cut out and can see how close and exposed the bearing is behind it. |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 6, 2017 22:16:17 GMT -5
Cylinder head left off and cylinder exposed to the weather well thats not nice. If the vinegar leaves it shiny with no pits then it will be easily reusable with a little lite honing.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 6, 2017 22:10:41 GMT -5
Why can't you remove the timing check plug and use the timing marks? Its the easiest and most accurate way to go to pull the access plug on the flywheel cover and align the marks.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 6, 2017 22:01:17 GMT -5
If its already open then you should be able to clearly see where the oil is coming from. Have you removed the variator yet? The seal is behind it and cannot be removed by going up from underneath like some of the older car engines as it is a one piece pressed in seal like on a wheel bearing, You may find once the variator has been removed that the seal already popped out and removal is not an issue. Yes you can cautiously hook the seal and pull it however you have to be very careful about nicking the shaft where the seal rides or damaging the bearing and its cage behind the seal. There is only about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch of space between the face of the seal and the bearing behind it so you can't use a screw with a very long point if you go that route. You may want to get the replacement seal first so you can measure exactly how much room you have to work with before drilling.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 6, 2017 21:29:18 GMT -5
That's too bad. Even out in the boondocks near Alabama's Grand Canyon or the rurals outside Cuseta Georgia I didn't find it that bad. All had a local mom and pop electric motor/starter re-builder along with their sources for bearings and seals. I once got stuck having to camp out on an abandoned airfield and the good ol boys came through with every odd ball part needed to get me going in short time and for cheap too be it for the bikes, F53 Bus or anything else.
Guess I have led a charmed life or scared folks so bad they'd do anything to get me on my way out of there.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 6, 2017 12:54:46 GMT -5
I maintained a string of woodworking factories most of which were built before the Civil War so every repair was an adventure with the WayBack Machine. Online didn't work out as well as pounding the pavement visiting the GoodOl'Boys to find parts that were close enough. I did a number of conversions to electric of the old water and steam powered equipment. Was still firing up the Dillon 40 foot steam engine to heat one plant that encompased about 4 city blocks.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 6, 2017 5:08:22 GMT -5
You can usually find a correct size generic brass fitting with the barb/bulb end on it at most of the better auto parts stores or the brass fitting section of the plumbing isle at Lowes, Home Depot, ACE, etc. You can then thread the head to accept it or cut off the threads and press it in.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 6, 2017 4:59:06 GMT -5
On starters I first check out a local starter and alternator re-builder who most times will sell me the parts to repair the starters for around $25 and it usually will be waiting at the counter for me on the same day or within 24 hours while having them take care of it for me is usually less than $100 and they actually guarantee their work for three years compared to the 0 to 9O days you get from most online vendors. When I lived in the Boston Area I would forgo the dealerships and head straight for the industrial supply (Atlantic Tracy?) which was in walking distance of where I lived and after a minute verifying the seals number and dimensions with a set of calipers would walk out with a better seal for a fraction of the cost of one from a dealership. Only a few seals or bearing are really custom to one particular brand of bike or even just to bikes and come from the general catalog of standard seals and bearings. Thankfully there are many choices that can be found to support the local economy that won't cost MegaBucks. BTW: Why does the forum software substitute a Yuk or other Emoticon when you use a number such as  (9O) forcing you to use a capital letter to approximate the zero? |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 5, 2017 10:08:54 GMT -5
There is always some slag that loosens when you put in a new cylinder kit unless you really soak it and flush it out in parts cleaner before installing it. You can even find curly shavings caught up in the screen on the first oil change on a factory fresh engine. Many times I will overfill an old engine of unknown history with diesel fuel or kerosene and let it sit a week or so before I start in on it to aid in flushing it out before hand. You may want to flush it out with parts cleaner another time or diesel which will probably be cheaper at $2.36 a gallon. Then change the oil in a another 20 miles and if it looks good do it again in another 100 after which go to a more normal oil change schedule. How tight was the piston when you put it in and did you coat all moving parts with an assembly oil when putting it all back together? Some do not realize that assembly oil is used to aid in the break-in/run-in of new parts going a long way to prevent scuffing as parts mate up. Its not expensive at less than $7 a bottle and very cheap insurance considering that one bottle should last through a dozen or so small engine rebuilds. What you are seeing could be build up of particles in the sump from the last persons failed attempt. You may need to take out the screen and oil drain plug so everything will flush though in a rush when you pour a gallon of diesel through to get all the residual flushed out.  www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants/permatex-ultra-slick-engine-assembly-lube/ |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 5, 2017 9:41:03 GMT -5
If there is a lot of blow by the crank seal behind the Variator can get blown out. this would indicate a blow-by vent hose is plugged somehow. oil or grease on friction surfaces causes them to glaze. i've heard that once this happens, the pads (brake or clutch) must be replaced, they CANNOT be sanded down and reused. Yep hoses and purge systems do get plugged by old oil or collapse from the heat once the blow by gets bad enough. The also get capped by some when trying to bypass evap systems. When the pads get soaked they have to be replaced however if they are just smokey from a oily fog you can many times get by with using some brake lining cleaner. Its a judgement call. No matter what though the CVT case and any contaminated components needs to be completely cleaned out of all oil along with the belt and possibly the rollers replaced regardless of the source of the oil. |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 5, 2017 8:46:57 GMT -5
Was the bike left outside in the rain for a long time?
You see that more often when the muffler fills up with rain and it overflows through the exhaust valve or the stock airbox has been removed and rain gets into the intake. You may get away with just replacing the valves and seals however a new head may also be required. The carburetor or muffler that the water got in through may also need to be replaced.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 5, 2017 8:32:42 GMT -5
If there is a lot of blow by the crank seal behind the Variator can get blown out. Excessive engine vibration can cause it to walk out. Since you lost drive you need to pull the CVT cover to clean up the mess and replace the belt regardless of the source of the oil as a drive belt once it gets oil on it will not last very long and as it starts to come apart belt cords will wrap around the drive shaft destroying the oil seal behind the variator. Hopefully the oil has not gotten inside the clutch and soaked into the friction pads.
By the parts listings on Parts for Scooters they are press in seals which can be installed with cautious use of a hammer and a length of pipe that is the same outside diameter as the seal and long enough that you will not accidentally damage the end of the crankshaft.
Be sure to verify the correct size seal used on your bike as there appear to be a few different sizes along with a smaller one for the right side of the bike behind the magneto cover.
Yes others have occasionally had crank shaft seals wear out or get damaged by old or defective belts that are in the process of failing.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 5, 2017 8:05:08 GMT -5
The local Piaggio dealers to compete don't charge shipping if you pick the parts up at the counter so that ends up costing quite a bit less than purchasing on-line.
One item I needed cost over $100 from the on-line resources and then there was shipping added to that however the local dealer got the same part number directly from Piaggio's warehouse in Georgia for quite a bit less than $100 with no additional charge for shipping.
You have to vet out your local dealers and you may be surprised at how many are now competing aggressively with the on-line sources to get you into the dealerships.
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(9O) forcing you to use a capital letter to approximate the zero?