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Post by rockynv on Jul 7, 2016 11:40:08 GMT -5
Accident avoidance was covered, classroom and on the range, as was crossing obstacles...but there was no obstacle-jumping on the range. I have no interest in retaking the BRC. Compared to your Sport City, I have equal or smaller tires and more weight...and, again, I cannot really stand on the floorboards. A bit of a dangerous scooter if you can't lean forward while pulling on the handle bars to transfer your weight to the floorboards in an emergency. Would have been a deal breaker for me regardless of any other compelling features the bike has. You basically can't properly deal with potholes, speed bumps or any other road hazards on that bike. Sorry to hear you got stuck with a bike with such a serious design flaw. I would trade it in on something that you can ride more safely. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Jul 7, 2016 20:42:07 GMT -5
The floorboards of a Burgman are angled...the only place really suitable for standing is at a fairly steep angle forward. There is a "kickup" that makes a spot for the pillon rider's feet, but the same thing results in a fairly-steeply raked floorboard under the rider. There is absolutely nothing else on the market (aside from a 650 Burg) that I would be willing to replace it with. (I would have no use for a Sportcity.) I have taken many grade crossings and expansion joints without a problem.
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Post by rockynv on Jul 7, 2016 23:21:48 GMT -5
The floorboards of a Burgman are angled...the only place really suitable for standing is at a fairly steep angle forward. There is a "kickup" that makes a spot for the pillon rider's feet, but the same thing results in a fairly-steeply raked floorboard under the rider. There is absolutely nothing else on the market (aside from a 650 Burg) that I would be willing to replace it with. (I would have no use for a Sportcity.) I have taken many grade crossings and expansion joints without a problem. Not really relevant that you have yet to find yourself in a situation that can become a life altering event if you can't lean forward and get your spine unloaded from the seat. It only takes a moment to compress the spine and alter the rest of your life. BV500, BV350, Scarabeo 500, Sport City 250, T-Max and Silverwing along with a number of others all seem to allow following best practice and are all Interstate Capable. I tour on my Sport City regularly and have no problems with keeping up with Interstate traffic. Its a personal choice if you want to trade off safety for style, etc however that's your decision. For me not being able to follow best practice because of a poor design as I said would eliminate the Burgman as a choice. Thank you very much for bringing that potentially dangerous design flaw regarding the Burgman to my attention. I will look into this more closely the next time I sit on one as I had been considering one as a potential replacement for my Sport City as I close in on the 50,000 mile mark. Currently I am at 30,000 miles and the bike is tight and smooth still running the original clutch and variator and the bike runs and handles so well that I come back unimpressed with most of the larger bikes that I have ridden. Not enough of a jump going from the 4 valve high compression 250cc to the 400cc + bikes to really make them worth considering especially if you have to trade off safety. BTW: The Sport City takes the same size front tire as the Burgman and Majesty however has a larger 15" rear tire compared to the 13" or 14" rear tires on the others. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Jul 8, 2016 7:04:02 GMT -5
Hey rocky, if your Ap is running fine, why are you giving it a set end at 50k? Why not keep on driving her 'til issues start developing? And if you're set on trading off, why not get another Sport City since I know how much you love yours?
>'Kat
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Post by Jarlaxle on Jul 8, 2016 8:08:03 GMT -5
The floorboards of a Burgman are angled...the only place really suitable for standing is at a fairly steep angle forward. There is a "kickup" that makes a spot for the pillon rider's feet, but the same thing results in a fairly-steeply raked floorboard under the rider. There is absolutely nothing else on the market (aside from a 650 Burg) that I would be willing to replace it with. (I would have no use for a Sportcity.) I have taken many grade crossings and expansion joints without a problem. Not really relevant that you have yet to find yourself in a situation that can become a life altering event if you can't lean forward and get your spine unloaded from the seat. It only takes a moment to compress the spine and alter the rest of your life. BV500, BV350, Scarabeo 500, Sport City 250, T-Max and Silverwing along with a number of others all seem to allow following best practice and are all Interstate Capable. I tour on my Sport City regularly and have no problems with keeping up with Interstate traffic. Its a personal choice if you want to trade off safety for style, etc however that's your decision. For me not being able to follow best practice because of a poor design as I said would eliminate the Burgman as a choice. What a pile. The Silverwing is ancient (and one with ABS might as well by mythical), the Tmax really isnt a step-through, as well as being close to unobtanium used. None of the smaller Sportcitys are suitable for long highway runs. The BV is a city scooter with a small fairing and minimal weather protection. That's not even mentioning the fact I simply have no interest in a Euro bike of any kind. You can't really do it on a Sportcity, either...at least, I can't, not with 11EEE boots. And no, no 250 can match the 4-valve, high-compression (12.5:1) 400 in the Burgman! A Sportcity tops out at about my usual highway pace! No. Same rim size, not the same tire size. |
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Post by cyborg55 on Jul 8, 2016 8:15:03 GMT -5
Seating is a huge issue for me and choosing a bike ,,,if I can't fully stand on a scooter at speed that bike is not for me,,,same for my choice in full size motorcycles,,the forward control crowd with the high handlebars and the lazy boy posture are asking for big trouble down the road,,,those kinds of bikes turn a little sand in a corner rear step out into a complete washout crash,,,,you are simply not in control on those kinds of bikes,,,a very dangerous condition,,,
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Post by Jarlaxle on Jul 8, 2016 9:15:49 GMT -5
I have NEVER, not one single time, seen a maxi scooter that I could stand on the floorboards. Simply doesn't exist.
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Post by cyborg55 on Jul 8, 2016 11:26:48 GMT -5
I don't doubt your word for a second,, I've never even looked at one let alone sat on one,,, they have nothing for me,,, I have my Stella and may get another or a px series vespa if I find one for a reasonable price,,, if I want a big bore (250cc or more) I get a full sized motorcycle ,,, big scooters don't interest me ,,, the ones I see cruising around town have the most fuktist uptist seating position ever devised by man,,, I like to ride fairly hard ,,, I'd be touching stuff down within ten minutes on one of those things,,,, and no dirt or fire trails on one of those,,, that would be a disaster,,, they ran the Dakar with 4 px series vespa scooters and almost finished with a 75% entry/finish rate,,, but one dropped out at the last minute so the finished with a 50% success rate, nearly double the normal 27% finish rate,,, when I make a purchase I look for overall performance , looks are a secondary reason ,,,
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Post by rockynv on Jul 8, 2016 12:17:41 GMT -5
Not really relevant that you have yet to find yourself in a situation that can become a life altering event if you can't lean forward and get your spine unloaded from the seat. It only takes a moment to compress the spine and alter the rest of your life. BV500, BV350, Scarabeo 500, Sport City 250, T-Max and Silverwing along with a number of others all seem to allow following best practice and are all Interstate Capable. I tour on my Sport City regularly and have no problems with keeping up with Interstate traffic. Its a personal choice if you want to trade off safety for style, etc however that's your decision. For me not being able to follow best practice because of a poor design as I said would eliminate the Burgman as a choice. What a pile. The Silverwing is ancient (and one with ABS might as well by mythical), the Tmax really isnt a step-through, as well as being close to unobtanium used. None of the smaller Sportcitys are suitable for long highway runs. The BV is a city scooter with a small fairing and minimal weather protection. That's not even mentioning the fact I simply have no interest in a Euro bike of any kind. You can't really do it on a Sportcity, either...at least, I can't, not with 11EEE boots. And no, no 250 can match the 4-valve, high-compression (12.5:1) 400 in the Burgman! A Sportcity tops out at about my usual highway pace! No. Same rim size, not the same tire size. Size 12 EEE Boots here however the Sport City acommodates them better than either the Honda or Suzuki bikes used by MSF. I had to buy a lighter pair than I use on the Sport City in order to ride the MSF bikes. The tire size up front on the Sport City 250 is the exact same 120/70-15 as the Burgman uses while the Sport City has a larger rear tire than the Burgman. I hope your usual highway pace is not  to 100 mph which is what my Sport City tops out at. The Sport City 250, BV350, BV500 and Scarabeo 500 are all considered Maxi/Touring bikes however if you have some aversion to European style thats your choice. Silverwings are plentiful and there are at least 4 T-Max on Craigs List locally most of the time. I'll opt for superior safety, better handling along with a better/more defensive riding position over style. You ride what you like while I'll go with safe. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Jul 8, 2016 17:16:10 GMT -5
My Burg has a 14" front tire. Only a 650 uses a 15.
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Post by tortoise on Jul 8, 2016 19:35:57 GMT -5
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Post by rockynv on Jul 9, 2016 0:34:53 GMT -5
Hey rocky, if your Ap is running fine, why are you giving it a set end at 50k? Why not keep on driving her 'til issues start developing? And if you're set on trading off, why not get another Sport City since I know how much you love yours? >'Kat People keep telling me how bad off I am riding the Sport City so I occasionally test the waters and truth be told have yet to find something that is truly superior. Big, bulky, heavy, poor seating position at much higher cost with sluggish off the line performance is what I mostly see. Going on test rides makes my Sport City even nicer to ride afterwards when I get on the nimble Interstate bike which the Sport City is that is also comfortable to ride day long on the Expressway. It is really disappointing how little extra performance you get from some of the 400 to 650cc bikes out there. It really adds up to being able to hit 105 instead of ninety five true mph. Do I really want to give up great handling, excellent accident avoidance capabilities and a superior riding position for an extra 10 mph that is well beyond the legal speed limit so basically unusable and make a jump to almost double to almost triple the displacement along with a near to a 600 lb actual curb weight compared to 326 lbs in order to get there. I know that nothing is forever so I am figuring 50,000 miles to have a respectable resale value and give the next custodian of the bike some reasonable expectation of getting some usage out of the bike before any really major repairs are required. As for another Sport City, they stopped bringing them into the country 7 years ago so anything you find for sale will be as old as mine with many suffering from sitting unused with little to no maintenance. I just missed out on a Red Tag Special at the dealer I bought my Sport City from. They had the Honda 700 CTX DCT automatics for $4,999 (almost $3,000 off). Those bikes are similar in riding position to the MSF training bikes and handle nimbly while getting better fuel economy than many 250cc bikes. They sit a little lower than what we are used to but are not too low. Brake pedal way up front takes a little getting used to but is doable. |
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Post by rockynv on Jul 9, 2016 1:16:24 GMT -5
My Burg has a 14" front tire. Only a 650 uses a 15. Well then that makes it even worse with the back then being only a 13" tire. Nice that Aprilia used the same tires on the 250 that support 650cc and larger bikes at Interstate speeds with both front and rear being on 15" rims. The rear tire sizes are even used on some fairly large displacement Metric Cruisers. The Sport City is rated to carry 465 lbs which is one reason they went with the more robust tires and the larger wheel sizes. The floorboards on the Sport City are designed to stick the toes of your boots into the front pockets so you can lock your heels against the inner panel and ride it like a sport bike which is really great when on snake like back roads and such. I am not forced to wear my smaller triple E boots either which I got mostly for when I ride a shift bike or a car with a clutch so when I am going on a long ride will wear my more comfortable quad E width boots. The quad E makes it even harder to shift many bikes out there, especially the small cruisers and I tend to skip from first to third when I wear them since its a tight squeeze to get my foot between the peg and the shifter. I started looking at the Burgman's online again after your comments about the riding position and you really zeroed me in on why I have not felt right every time I sat on one. With the new 400's having the floor boards so high and angled up where they get closer to the seat it puts your knees up higher than your hips with your feet too far forward so it will be more difficult to ride out an event, that requires getting your weight off the seat, like a pot hole or obstacle on the roadway. Thanks again for helping me realize what it was that was making me feel put offish when sitting on the 400. Sad thing is they could have done so much better on that and improved it greatly by eliminating the stylization of the floorboards and designing them for a more sure footed and much safer riding stance. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Jul 9, 2016 7:44:19 GMT -5
The B400 uses a 140/80-14 front and a 150/70-13 rear tire...I recall the Silverwing uses the same sizes. OE tires are Bridgestone Hoops, I recall H-rated. One reason is a larger rear tire would eat into the underseat storage. The odd floorboards are for a couple reasons. One is a spot for the pillon rider's feet. Another is tough to see in photos: there are cufouts on both sides, making it much easier for a short rider to get both feet down. Stock, a B400 tops out about  ...still pulling, but on the redline. With Dr. Pulley sliders, mine will comfortably exceed that speed, though I've not topped it out since the swap. A 650 will top out around 115...I think also redline limited. Also...according to each and every review I have seen, a Sportcity 250 will not exceed 80MPH (actual) on level ground. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Jul 9, 2016 11:47:57 GMT -5
You know, rocky, those BVs are a sweet ride with good big tires.... Or else you can always look for a Honda DN-01, if you really want style with power with handling--  (aw look, he's GRINNIN' at you!) Or you can just stick with your beloved SC. I mean, sure, I could've traded or sold off my Taury years earlier. But I LOVE that car! He was everything I needed in a car. I'll warn you, sure you can go for something newer and avoid big repairs for a while and even get new better tech. But it'll never be the same as what you got. >'Kat, STILL missing her old Taury-wagon  |
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to 100 mph which is what my Sport City tops out at.
...still pulling, but on the redline. With Dr. Pulley sliders, mine will comfortably exceed that speed, though I've not topped it out since the swap. A 650 will top out around 115...I think also redline limited.