|
|
Post by JR on Apr 20, 2016 0:02:25 GMT -5
Like the $100 saddle JR. On a GY6 at best you could get the Super Tech 15W40 Rotella alternative in the $9.99 Gallon Jug for your 500 mile oil changes or just about dino any oil that meets the 4T Motorcycle Oil spec Super Tech 15W40 Dino Rotella Alternative (said to be universal and therefore meeting 4T)Super Tech-20W50-Dino Motor-Oil-1-Quart (said to meet 4T Spec). For my Piaggio powered bike I asked the manufacturers rep about those two oils along with real Rotella and the answer was no way. Use only 4T Synthetic in our newer series tight tolerance full flow filtered engines which means any 4 stoke they have made in about the last 25 years. Again use what is appropriate for what you have and try to understand why something would or would not be appropriate. Do not use synthetic in an unfiltered engine that you want any combustion by products etc to accumulate in the bottom of the sump to get drained out every 500 miles which is what you really want on a GY6. The 500 mile oil change is technically not because the oil is worn out but rather because those engines are not particularly clean running so that you need to get the dirt accumulating in the bottom of the sump drained out before it starts circulating back through the engine. Also rockynv someone just told me something that I totally agree with even though I made it sound like Genuine is just wanting to take people's money. Some people actually don't know how to change the oil in a scooter especially a scooter with a true oil filter and the first 500 mile oil change would be a good thing for the scooter warranty and a way for them to learn how. But I still find no evidence at all that the scooter comes with synthetic oil from the factory nor do I find in any Genuine manual where it says to use synthetic oil? If someone has info to the contrary I will stand corrected.  JR |
|
|
|
Post by onewheeldrive on Apr 20, 2016 0:27:23 GMT -5
It still could be possible that even without a real oil filter and using synthetic, (and even with the junk circulating through the system-- "defeating the purpose of synthetic") that a Gy6 could still last just as long or longer using synthetic, regardless of price point or recommended oil for a gy6.
I guess we will never know.
I agree that "earlier" oil breakdown vs dirty oil with no filter is a completely separate thing from a 500 mile oil change.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Apr 20, 2016 4:44:27 GMT -5
The Genuine to me are the over 25 year old engine designs from before Piaggio started recommending using synthetic in their bikes but its still possible that Genuine is making them tighter than the original specs. Owners manuals are great however there is always the possibility of a tech bulletin sent out to the dealers that over rides what's contained in them. My nephew had the Genuin Stella 125 but it was a 2 stroke with a shift which is real old school Vespa so he probably would not be able to speak to this.
|
|
|
|
Post by ricardoguitars on Apr 20, 2016 8:16:23 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by urbanmadness on Apr 20, 2016 16:14:16 GMT -5
In the scooters, I've always just used Castrol dino. In the goldwing... whole different animal. They seem to like Rotella (at least the 1100 does) or Dello (the 1500). I tried Castrol Dino 4t oil in the 1100, and the trans didn't like it much. The trans seems to like the Rotella much better for some reason. It shifts smoother with fewer false naturals. Old goldwings like a firm toe when shifting, and with the Rotella I don't have to be quite as firm. Yeah, I don't bang shift her either (although I have once or twice just to see if I could do it), I ride it pretty gently other then that. You just don't push too hard on Vintage bikes.
Everyone says, don't use synthetic with a wet clutch (you don't worry about that with a scoot, they have a dry clutch), because the friction modifiers will make the clutch slip. Rotella is different as it does not have the friction modifiers (or so I'm told), same with Dello. Both are designed for diesels.
keep in mind the 1100 has about 46k on it (considered low mileage for a '82 wing), and the 1500 has 105k (about normal for an '89 wing) I'm probably going to try a good 4t oil in the 1500 next oil change. The 1100 will stay with the Rotella, simply because she likes it.
The Jimmy (a '91) has been running Kendle synth blend, and the ridgeline had been running Kendle, until this last oil change. Jiffy lube had Rotella so now it's running that. I don't like Pensoil. It really goops up, if you ever blow a head gasket or at least it used to. it had something to do with the additive package they were using.
I think it's way more important to change the oil, then what it's running on the gy6's. Do it every 500 miles, and you won't go wrong... I used to do my air cooled VW every 1000. Same set up, sump screen, and no filter.
|
|
|
|
Post by larrball on Apr 20, 2016 16:58:06 GMT -5
Like the $100 saddle JR. On a GY6 at best you could get the Super Tech 15W40 Rotella alternative in the $9.99 Gallon Jug for your 500 mile oil changes or just about dino any oil that meets the 4T Motorcycle Oil spec Super Tech 15W40 Dino Rotella Alternative (said to be universal and therefore meeting 4T)Super Tech-20W50-Dino Motor-Oil-1-Quart (said to meet 4T Spec). For my Piaggio powered bike I asked the manufacturers rep about those two oils along with real Rotella and the answer was no way. Use only 4T Synthetic in our newer series tight tolerance full flow filtered engines which means any 4 stoke they have made in about the last 25 years. Again use what is appropriate for what you have and try to understand why something would or would not be appropriate. Do not use synthetic in an unfiltered engine that you want any combustion by products etc to accumulate in the bottom of the sump to get drained out every 500 miles which is what you really want on a GY6. The 500 mile oil change is technically not because the oil is worn out but rather because those engines are not particularly clean running so that you need to get the dirt accumulating in the bottom of the sump drained out before it starts circulating back through the engine. Also rockynv someone just told me something that I totally agree with even though I made it sound like Genuine is just wanting to take people's money. Some people actually don't know how to change the oil in a scooter especially a scooter with a true oil filter and the first 500 mile oil change would be a good thing for the scooter warranty and a way for them to learn how. But I still find no evidence at all that the scooter comes with synthetic oil from the factory nor do I find in any Genuine manual where it says to use synthetic oil? If someone has info to the contrary I will stand corrected. JR That would be me. This is the PM i sent JR. I am posting it per his request. Hey Jr, I didn't want to post this in the thread due to the fact it could confuse some people that are new. I don't think the dealers for (PGO) AKA genuine scooters are trying to rip any one off on the first 500 mile services, but are trying to help a new owner get the best they can out of a new scooter and as we know the first few miles makes a difference. China,twain,japan scooters if you neglect it, it will die. I have had kids come to me to have there scooters repaired with oil so dark and gummy (if there is any oil left) it's not funny. Did you know my 2T has on oil filter? well it does right behind the fill tank, to protect the oil pump and carb.(haven't seen one on a 2T china scoot yet.) My advice for a 4T, like many would be, " if it looks dirty dark brown, regardless of miles, then change it" I hope your post get's some of the new scooter fokes to read and click the links you provided because really, the best thing one can do for a 4t engine, regardless of make and model is keep that oil fresh.  |
|
|
|
Post by larrball on Apr 20, 2016 18:14:15 GMT -5
Think of changing you'r oil in a 139-Gy6 (4T) engine, like this guy making a (fake but relevant)call into work.  This is you, talking to you're Scooter.  |
|
|
|
Post by JR on Apr 20, 2016 22:38:15 GMT -5
It still could be possible that even without a real oil filter and using synthetic, (and even with the junk circulating through the system-- "defeating the purpose of synthetic") that a Gy6 could still last just as long or longer using synthetic, regardless of price point or recommended oil for a gy6. I guess we will never know. I agree that "earlier" oil breakdown vs dirty oil with no filter is a completely separate thing from a 500 mile oil change. I'll agree to that too and my whole thought was that I don't believe the GY-6 will do any better on synthetic and is over kill and wasting money. But I don't think it'll do worse either with one exception and I'm using personal experience on this. I've got a 2008 Bali 150 in my fleet of scooters and at around 3k I decided one day to do some experiments using different oils seeing if I could find one that would drop the engine temp. I did test after test, recorded the results, ran the exact same course, did the tests at same temp every day etc. I tried 5 different quality dino oils and 4 different synthetics. This scooter was in perfect running condition, used no oil and ran very well. Castrol dino oil was the best among dino oils and Mobile was the best among the synthetics. I decided to go with the Mobile. Long story short in two weeks the engine was leaking every where, had to pull it and completely replace every gasket in it. I read somewhere that this can happen with synthetic oil? Don't know if this was the real reason but it has Castrol back in it now.  JR |
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Apr 21, 2016 4:53:54 GMT -5
Some rubber formulations do not react well to full synthetic. Had that happen on a vintage Fiat Spider that a Tire Kingdom shop added full synthetic brake fluid to. In a short time the new master cylinder failed with the seals turning to putty and the brake hoses had the liners swell and close off. The brake hoses which were only a few years old looked like they were filled with RTV sealant when I put a mechanics wire through them. While most new stuff is made to hold up to synthetic there is probably no guaranty that stuff coming from China will always have gaskets and seals that are going to hold up to it unless they specify the use of synthetic in the manual at even then it could be hit and miss.
|
|
|
|
Post by JerryScript on Apr 22, 2016 2:39:24 GMT -5
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if oil companies pay manufacturers to recommend certain things in owners manuals. It's common practice to pay for recommendations in the US, and China has a much larger scooter riding population. It may be just a gy6 to us, but it's billions in oil changes and repairs in China every year, probably trillions Asia-wide. Without a manual's recommendation, most would choose cheaper dino oil, so we are talking about at least hundreds of millions, plenty of reason to pay for a recommendation.
|
|
|
|
Post by onewheeldrive on Apr 22, 2016 3:22:03 GMT -5
Well I will say that I've put about 14.5k km on this 139qmb w/72cc bbk on it (it came with it installed). From day one I put 10w30 regular dino Castrol brand in it. I know most recommend, or seem to, 10w40.
My goal was to change it every 500, but after the first few changes it probably was in between every 650-750-- remember though my odometer is in km. When I put the oil in, I'd fill it slightly above the crosshatches on the dipstick, everytime.
I can tell you right now that I won't make 15k the way my engine is sounding. I just know it. As a matter of fact, I have an engine on the way because I really don't feel like rebuilding it. My scoot runs but it's only a matter of time. Fedex drops it off Tuesday, so I should be good no matter what.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Apr 22, 2016 5:12:31 GMT -5
On the Piaggio its more than a paid recommendation since they test and void warranties if you use other than the specified type and grade of lubricant. At best it would only be a brand endorsement and not the type and grade such as use Motul 4T Synthetic 10W40 Oil instead of use a 4T Synthetic 10W40 Oil.
30,000 miles on my bike and it looks like its good for another 30,000 on the recommended lubricants at the specified 6,500 mile oil change schedule.
On some engine designs the need for synthetic is beyond the lubricity as with synthetic they can use spray nozzles machined into the blocks to enhance cooling in certain areas by having a mist of oil being sprayed on certain components. Those spray nozzles would quickly clog up with if one used conventional oil in the bikes. This feature is usually only found on engines with full filtered lubrication.
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 2 
Likes: 0
Joined: Jan 20, 2016 8:38:02 GMT -5
|
Post by slimshimmers on Apr 30, 2016 15:26:48 GMT -5
I have a SYM Fiddle II 125 just shy of 7000 miles and have been using Shell Rotella 15w-40 dino. I just purchased a gallon of Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 to try for the next round of oil changes. I had not heard that synthetic oil could cause an issue with leaking seals in a gy6 motor. Do I need to be concerned about this on the Fiddle, or do you guys feel that the tolerances will be tighter than a standard chinese manufactured gy6?
|
|
|
|
Post by tortoise on Apr 30, 2016 16:21:12 GMT -5
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Joined: Jan 20, 2016 8:38:02 GMT -5
|
Post by slimshimmers on May 1, 2016 7:50:06 GMT -5
Per the Lance Havana 125 Maintenance Guide (which has a similar engine) . . 1240 miles service:
"Recommend to use synthetic motor oil for all future oil changes."
Related discussion.
Thanks tortoise much appreciated. I will go with it and report back with the results in time.
|
|
