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Post by thevolget on Dec 28, 2015 23:03:03 GMT -5
I'm going to have to video tomorrow, and going to have to fight this. Cost of fines alone is almost what I paid for it.
Per Virginia law, anyone can ride a scooter/moped as long as displacement is less than 50cc without need for license. Only exception is if have been convicted of DUI and/or had license suspended/revoked. No insurance is needed to ride.
Also the law states that the moped/scooter can not exceed 35mph or it then becomes a motorcycle.
As for the registration, I noticed something funny when looking at it. The dealership gave me the registration when I purchased the scooter in question. I had brought the title and plates off the old one I had (2006 NST 50cc) since I had to scrap it. The dealership told me they would transfer the information over since I had just registered it that July. The information the officer filed on the tickets is for the scooter I haven't had since Nov. 2014. After speaking with the dealership, I was informed that they didn't know until March of this year that they couldn't transfer the tags and them be linked to the new scooter.
Now I'm in a black hole since technically the scooter I was ticketed on doesn't exist, and that means I've been riding an unregistered scooter (which is being fixed tomorrow morning, and would add lots more to the issue if brought up in court). But it does give me a chance to go in as if I just got the scooter I was on and it being purchased due to the tickets as a corrective measure.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 28, 2015 23:16:08 GMT -5
in indiana, an officer has to do the VIN check when getting a vehicle, then the BMV registers that vehicle, not the dealer.
the only thing a dealer can do is give you the title and 30 day temp tags.
the title/ registration/ tags from your old scoot cannot be transferred to the new one.
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Post by thevolget on Dec 28, 2015 23:32:47 GMT -5
in indiana, an officer has to do the VIN check when getting a vehicle, then the BMV registers that vehicle, not the dealer. the only thing a dealer can do is give you the title and 30 day temp tags. the title/ registration/ tags from your old scoot cannot be transferred to the new one. The dealership I went to was new to selling 50cc scooters (also was only place in area that would finance me). They told me the day I picked up the title that they had just had to call several people in and redo their registration due to the "state having them linked as a motorcycle dealership and all the recent sales had been registered as motorcycles". Didn't think anything much of it since it was only July when the state made everyone have to register the scooters and have plates here. Also, if the address where offence happened is wrong (address on ticket where officer states happened is approx 4 blocks away from where officers car was sitting when he pulled out behind me) wouldn't that be more information in my behalf? |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 29, 2015 6:49:16 GMT -5
The dealership I went to was new to selling 50cc scooters (also was only place in area that would finance me). They told me the day I picked up the title that they had just had to call several people in and redo their registration due to the "state having them linked as a motorcycle dealership and all the recent sales had been registered as motorcycles". this is another discrepancy. the BMV doesn't rely on what the dealer sells, they rely on the VIN to determine if the scoot is a motorcycle or not. i have no answer for why you would walk out of that place without the title, bill of sale, and a 30 day temp tag you should have received all 3 of these at the time of delivery. well yeah, if the particulars stated on the ticket doesn't jive with the actual events, the ticket can be dispensed with. what puzzles me the most though is, why didn't the cop impound your ride? if he wrote you a ticket for no license, then that is an automatic impound. there are a couple of things to keep in mind: 1. i'm speaking from the perspective of indiana law. 2. don't take anyones word in regards to legal matters, look into professional help. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Dec 29, 2015 9:13:00 GMT -5
I will say, I successfully fought a parking ticket. I was indeed parked in front of a no-parking sign, but I was parked in my friend's yard with the left tires on the curb. So basically off the street. And got a ticket. Even though it was only $20, it was the principle to me, 'cause I felt I'd done nothing wrong. Told the judge the above, and that my car in no way was affecting traffic flow. He dismissed the ticket, only had to pay $5 court dues.
Had a guy on the dorm floor go fight his speeding ticket for the same reason. The cop nailed him for five over. He was mad 'cause for once he hadn't been speeding. Went and had his speedo tested and it was showing low. That mech fixed it and wrote a letter. Guy came back all disappointed 'cause he never got to fight the ticket--the judge took one look at it, glared at the cop and said "Five miles over? FIVE MILES??! Dismissed!"
So I agree with JR, gather all the evidence you can to support your side. And go represent yourself. If the judge still finds against you, then get the lawyer and appeal. No need to spend extra money until necessary.
>'Kat
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 29, 2015 9:42:41 GMT -5
So I agree with JR, gather all the evidence you can to support your side. And go represent yourself. If the judge still finds against you, then get the lawyer and appeal. No need to spend extra money until necessary. >'Kat i'm not saying NOT to, i'm saying get professional advice. it's the same sort of thing with medical advice. while some laws can be applied to the entire US, some aren't. moped laws are such laws, although they are becoming more uniform. i advise a lawyer for the same reason i would advise a doctor for medical problems. the only real difference between the 2 is that you actually can DIY in regards to the law. OTOH, i've heard of such sayings as "a doctor that treats himself has a fool for a patient" in my opinion, the OP has a very good chance at beating this stuff, simply because the cop didn't impound his ride. that alone says the OP was legally licensed, and by implication he could not have been speeding. but here again, don't take my word for this stuff, find it out for yourself. |
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Post by JR on Dec 29, 2015 12:30:11 GMT -5
So I agree with JR, gather all the evidence you can to support your side. And go represent yourself. If the judge still finds against you, then get the lawyer and appeal. No need to spend extra money until necessary. >'Kat i'm not saying NOT to, i'm saying get professional advice. it's the same sort of thing with medical advice. while some laws can be applied to the entire US, some aren't. moped laws are such laws, although they are becoming more uniform. i advise a lawyer for the same reason i would advise a doctor for medical problems. the only real difference between the 2 is that you actually can DIY in regards to the law. OTOH, i've heard of such sayings as "a doctor that treats himself has a fool for a patient" in my opinion, the OP has a very good chance at beating this stuff, simply because the cop didn't impound his ride. that alone says the OP was legally licensed, and by implication he could not have been speeding. but here again, don't take my word for this stuff, find it out for yourself. I based my thoughts upon what the OP gave and if all these facts are exactly true then getting advice which in all cases can't hurt it wouldn't be needed if well presented to a judge that could indeed look at the facts himself. In some places one can get a free one time visit to a lawyer for a opinion or legal advice and then if you want to proceed with the lawyer then a price is agreed upon to hire him , maybe a good thing to do here. But here's the kicker even if one hires a lawyer some ground work to prepare the case is going to have to be done. Where is the ground work and case going to be built? From the very person who is hiring the lawyer and he is going to present all the facts to a judge, he is basically a middle man you're paying. So just as I stated before if all the facts given by the OP are correct then putting them all together with the main thing being engine displacement and proving that in the place where ticketed over 35mph isn't possible, a judge is going to be hard pressed to agree with the officer. To me why or why not the scooter wasn't impounded isn't a issue, the tickets have still been issued and a course of action is required by either paying the fines, or fighting them. JR |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 29, 2015 14:18:28 GMT -5
I based my thoughts upon what the OP gave and if all these facts are exactly true then getting advice which in all cases can't hurt it wouldn't be needed if well presented to a judge that could indeed look at the facts himself. In some places one can get a free one time visit to a lawyer for a opinion or legal advice and then if you want to proceed with the lawyer then a price is agreed upon to hire him , maybe a good thing to do here. But here's the kicker even if one hires a lawyer some ground work to prepare the case is going to have to be done. Where is the ground work and case going to be built? From the very person who is hiring the lawyer and he is going to present all the facts to a judge, he is basically a middle man you're paying. So just as I stated before if all the facts given by the OP are correct then putting them all together with the main thing being engine displacement and proving that in the place where ticketed over 35mph isn't possible, a judge is going to be hard pressed to agree with the officer. To me why or why not the scooter wasn't impounded isn't a issue, the tickets have still been issued and a course of action is required by either paying the fines, or fighting them. JR JR, i basically agree with all of this BUT, what if some vague virginia law allowed someone like the OP to be compensated for this sort of thing? for example, all of this can be seen as harassment, and what if virginia had a law that allowed compensation for such a thing? it's unlikely the judge would voluntarily compensate the OP, simply because he didn't sue for it i'm looking at, not only to get the tickets thrown out, but there might be some other connections too that the OP isn't aware of. here again, i am in NO WAY saying such a thing exists, merely pointing out the possibilities. there might even be a way for the state to pay the legal fees incurred by the OP. initial consulting fees locally is about 20 bucks, and quite a few are free. i can confidently say this, it's highly unlikely that the OP is well versed on virginia law. |
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Post by JR on Dec 29, 2015 16:20:21 GMT -5
I based my thoughts upon what the OP gave and if all these facts are exactly true then getting advice which in all cases can't hurt it wouldn't be needed if well presented to a judge that could indeed look at the facts himself. In some places one can get a free one time visit to a lawyer for a opinion or legal advice and then if you want to proceed with the lawyer then a price is agreed upon to hire him , maybe a good thing to do here. But here's the kicker even if one hires a lawyer some ground work to prepare the case is going to have to be done. Where is the ground work and case going to be built? From the very person who is hiring the lawyer and he is going to present all the facts to a judge, he is basically a middle man you're paying. So just as I stated before if all the facts given by the OP are correct then putting them all together with the main thing being engine displacement and proving that in the place where ticketed over 35mph isn't possible, a judge is going to be hard pressed to agree with the officer. To me why or why not the scooter wasn't impounded isn't a issue, the tickets have still been issued and a course of action is required by either paying the fines, or fighting them. JR JR, i basically agree with all of this BUT, what if some vague virginia law allowed someone like the OP to be compensated for this sort of thing? for example, all of this can be seen as harassment, and what if virginia had a law that allowed compensation for such a thing? it's unlikely the judge would voluntarily compensate the OP, simply because he didn't sue for it i'm looking at, not only to get the tickets thrown out, but there might be some other connections too that the OP isn't aware of. here again, i am in NO WAY saying such a thing exists, merely pointing out the possibilities. there might even be a way for the state to pay the legal fees incurred by the OP. initial consulting fees locally is about 20 bucks, and quite a few are free. i can confidently say this, it's highly unlikely that the OP is well versed on virginia law. Two things to go to court with a case where you are charged with a crime/violation the court has to explain the law and provide evidence as to how/why you broke the law. If like in my state traffic violations are handled in what is called municipal court with a recorder, judge and officer of the court and a place for all people who want to address the court/judge to sit. It's a very small courtroom and isn't intimidating. All municipal judges here are elected by the citizens of his zone/jurisdiction and in most cases the judge is a practicing lawyer from the area and has two things in mind, enforcing the laws and treating the people who elected him and can remove him in the next election fairly. A good fair and responsible judge understands that officers make mistakes and will listen to you if he is properly addressed and you can provide cause to dispute the violation you were charged with. With the courtroom setting very informal a judge will always direct a person who is representing themselves in the proper courtroom procedure and what your rights are and direct you on how to give your testimony, redirect to the officer who charged you and how to bring any witnesses in you may want to use in your defense. One doesn't need to be versed in all the laws involved but rather try to present evidence that proves you are not guilty of the crime you are charged with and it's the judge's responsibility to explain the crime you are being charged with. Your rights don't go away just because you don't have a lawyer. This member isn't on trial for murder but rather a traffic violation and again if what he says is on the up and up I personally can't see how he can lose this case if he properly prepares all the facts in his favor and presents them to the court. Again I'm basing my opinion on what was stated and the last comments I've made are based upon what is done in my state. As far as compensation? Again don't know squat about Virginia but in my state one would have to first win their case and then file a counter suit for any possible compensation and if you go to court on your own there are no costs to you even the court costs are waived. Most municipal court times here are generally at early evening around 7 pm so most people won't even have to miss work to go. JR |
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Post by murkyapricot on Dec 29, 2015 16:28:36 GMT -5
Do they have a Ticket Clinic or something of that degree up there (it's like a cheap firm that goes to court for you and usually gets things dismissed)
I tried to fight a ticket myself for speeding in a school zone on a scooter when i was clocked and ticketed outside the school zone. I have a completely clean driving record.
I brought a map labeled with numbers and pictures for each number.
The judge thanked me got being well prepared, then I lost the case because the cop lied. No lesser charge, lesser ticket, nothing. 2 court appearances just to lose.
Moral of the story, I realized no matter how prepared I was I don't know the law well enough and these cops (motor cycle jerk cops) were well versed in court.
$300 ticket, would have been worth paying the $60 to ticket clinic to try to get it dropped.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 29, 2015 17:12:50 GMT -5
As far as compensation? Again don't know squat about Virginia but in my state one would have to first win their case and then file a counter suit for any possible compensation and if you go to court on your own there are no costs to you even the court costs are waived this right here is my entire point, how can you know if you are entitled to compensation if you don't know the law? the average joe just doesn't know the law proficiently. plus, there could be other subtleties about the law the OP isn't aware of and sing himself right into a mess. in legal matters i will always recommend a lawyer. OTOH, i will also say a lawyer isn't always required to win a case. can the OP go it alone? probably, but he should at least make an initial consultation with a lawyer that specializes in motor vehicle law. this will give the OP to ask questions about his case, and especially to get an expert opinion. in my non expert opinion, the cop screwed up when he didn't impound the ride. the fact he wrote a ticket for improper license and not impounding the ride is at the very least aiding and abetting a criminal. so, what should the OP do about this? tell the judge "tear up the tickets, and we'll forget the whole thing?" yes, i would consult, at least initially, a lawyer. |
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Post by JR on Dec 29, 2015 17:13:57 GMT -5
Do they have a Ticket Clinic or something of that degree up there (it's like a cheap firm that goes to court for you and usually gets things dismissed) I tried to fight a ticket myself for speeding in a school zone on a scooter when i was clocked and ticketed outside the school zone. I have a completely clean driving record. I brought a map labeled with numbers and pictures for each number. The judge thanked me got being well prepared, then I lost the case because the cop lied. No lesser charge, lesser ticket, nothing. 2 court appearances just to lose. Moral of the story, I realized no matter how prepared I was I don't know the law well enough and these cops (motor cycle jerk cops) were well versed in court. $300 ticket, would have been worth paying the $60 to ticket clinic to try to get it dropped. You could have immediately voiced your intent to appeal the ruling, had so many days to do so and still used the $60 ticket clinic to do the case. As I stated had I lost on my own I was prepared to appeal and on one case that happened to me as it did to you. I appealed because I was innocent and refused to bow down to the "it's cheaper to pay the ticket than fight it" and the case never made it to appeals court and I received a notice in the mail the charges had been dropped. JR |
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Post by JR on Dec 29, 2015 17:17:54 GMT -5
As far as compensation? Again don't know squat about Virginia but in my state one would have to first win their case and then file a counter suit for any possible compensation and if you go to court on your own there are no costs to you even the court costs are waived this right here is my entire point, how can you know if you are entitled to compensation if you don't know the law? the average joe just doesn't know the law proficiently. plus, there could be other subtleties about the law the OP isn't aware of and sing himself right into a mess. in legal matters i will always recommend a lawyer. OTOH, i will also say a lawyer isn't always required to win a case. can the OP go it alone? probably, but he should at least make an initial consultation with a lawyer that specializes in motor vehicle law. this will give the OP to ask questions about his case, and especially to get an expert opinion. in my non expert opinion, the cop screwed up when he didn't impound the ride. the fact he wrote a ticket for improper license and not impounding the ride is at the very least aiding and abetting a criminal. so, what should the OP do about this? tell the judge "tear up the tickets, and we'll forget the whole thing?" yes, i would consult, at least initially, a lawyer. Since by your own admission you know nothing about Virginia law you couldn't recommend anything to one about how they should handle the case. I made this clear in my statement also and only said what I would do and left the options up to the OP and didn't tell him what to do either. Also the standard for compensation in any case is having a loss and you don't have to be a lawyer to know this. JR |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 29, 2015 21:14:13 GMT -5
since i don't know virginia law very well i cannot give much advice on the matter.
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Post by relicmoto on Feb 5, 2016 23:07:25 GMT -5
I can only advise you to dress as well as you can afford to. I have been in court when 2 individuals had nearly identical charges, and the same attorney but got different sentences. The only difference I could see is one had baggy jeans, a graphic tee and a zip up hoody, while the other had a shirt, tie and slacks. I reckon you can figure who got the sterner penalty.
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