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Post by lain on Apr 26, 2015 22:49:36 GMT -5
I see you guys have all those fancy light up switches... Can you use a light up switch for the kill switch? Like have it only illuminate when the key is turned to on and have it work like normal where it can kill the engine and also prevent starting?
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 23:33:18 GMT -5
Your saying if I run the h4 bulbs DC I'll still burn the stator or regulator up ? Or if I try to run them AC ? Rcq is running the same bulbs but AC . I'm at the understanding if I run these lights DC , the regulator with the black wire hooked up should not burn up . is this correct ? You would think the regulator would have a limit with the black wire hooked up . I know it monitors how much to send to charge the battery but you think it would have a limit so it doesn't burn up . the. Battery was showing 18+ volts at 3000 rpms without the black wire hooked up . so it had to be much higher at 7500 rpms , maybe close to 20-24 volts ? At what point will the regulator burn up ? If hooked up DC wouldn't the lights just start to drain the battery if they are too much , and not burn the regulator up ? THat is with the black wire connected. Will it be able to keep the battery fully charged when the lights are on ? That I'll have to find out . I'm quite busy tonight so If I don't get back to ya, bare with me..... Volts are only one part of electrical capacitance value. You also have to take into account Amps... Amps, x Volts = watts... Now, watts can be directly translated into heat. To keep it simple, just think of it like this, more watts equals more heat..... Excessive heat is the number 1 killer of R/R's and Stators... If you examine the diagram I produced in the other thread with the R/R's specs, this R/R is spec'd to 10 AMPs MAX for the A/C input... That is not an RMS value... It also list the DC charge output MAX value at 5500 RPM's/6 AMP's/14.6 volts...That is 87.6 watts you have available at MAX charge... Now you're correct in assuming the R/R will automatically adjust now that you have the black wire hooked up, but it can not adjust beyond it's rated specs.. Is what would happen, is you would wind up running it at max capacity and that thing would be very hot to the touch even, then eventually fail to the heat.... Just do the math....you have 87.6 watts available... Them two lights you're talking about is a whopping 120 watts... And that's not talking about your tail, indicator and instrument lights. As to Rcq's setup? Who know's... Like you've seen, you can hook it up and get light, but you're going to be wreaking havoc on you're electrical... He may have an 8 or 11 pole stator with a full wave R/R... Full wave theoretically doubles your electrical output. *edit, now I know why... He only has one... His scoot would have no problems supporting one of these lights.  This might sound dumb but , the rr's max dc output is 14.6 volts . with the battery hooked up and with its 12-13 volts , I would expect the regulator would slowly have to keep stepping up the volts to account for the drain on the battery. Or would it all of a sudden be at max output when the lights come on ? The reason i ask this is because The longest I ride one way is about 12-15 min. During the day " no lights " night I would run the lights . I guess my main question is , would the regulator send max voltage to the battery right off the bat or will it slowly raise the current to the battery as lights begin to drain it ? Would I have enough battery power to run the lihts for 15 mins and possibly not draw to much from the regulator ? Or am I just wrong ? My best bet is to just run one light at a time or install the 11 pole stator I have . I would have to buy a new regulator for the 11 pole . |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 26, 2015 23:39:32 GMT -5
I see you guys have all those fancy light up switches... Can you use a light up switch for the kill switch? Like have it only illuminate when the key is turned to on and have it work like normal where it can kill the engine and also prevent starting? Yes. A kill switch is just that, a switch... I think it's a spst (single pole, single through), N/O (normally open) switch ... The light in the switch is completely independant of the switch. It's operation is determined by how it's hooked up... Directly to 12v it's on all the time... Put it keyed on, it comes on with the key. |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 23:42:25 GMT -5
DM says you have TWO headlights ... so here is a suggestion. 1. The flasher you will receive tomorrow is ideal for you. It has TWO outputs and is really designed to blink the lights alternately (it has 7 blink modes, I think - so "alternately" isn't exactly correct). Let's say it is designed to use TWO lights that blink in some sort of synchronized mode,. Having only ONE hedlight I can only use one output -- but you can use both. Ideal. 2 At the moment you probably can't run both at the same time. I don't know what the current draw would be running the two H4 bulbs 'alternately' - there is a large surge current when they turn on, so it might be you can't run both lights even though they are alternating and not really going "on at the same time". I don't know. 3. If you everntually upgraded to a more robust )8 or 11 pole) stator, and a beefier RR, I would imagine you could do whatever you wanted. So ---- you have a "TRANSITION" issue. 4. A solution might be to add TWO switches - one for each headlight bulb - so you could turn on none, either one, or both according to your switch. You can also run the flasher output to the switch so it controls whatever you are feeding to the bulb(s) - either a continuous current (as in simply using them at night) or flashing (as in using them during the day). Then, for now, just keep only ONE switch "on" so you don't draw too much current for what your electrical system can supply. 5. Then - if in 6 months you upgrade to a bigger output stator and RR, you can simply have both switches "ON" and bingo - instant upgrade to a 2-bulb system 6. Trust me - ONE H4 at night is great !!!!!! 7. Just make sure you also don't blast both HIGH beams when you switch on the high beams. Either don't connect the wire to one of the H$ high beam terminals, or have a pair of switches for them as well. I'd personally go with the first - tape it off inside the headlight cavity, then it's simple to attach once you upgrade stators (if you do). Again - ONE H4 high beam is GREAT at night! There are two lights in the pics I posted , thanks for telling me you only have one ! My goodness . I would have got my scoot up and running and then caught on fire riding down the road . you would have seen the news showing a ball of fire flying down the road with fire trucks on my tail , lol. I'll probably just run one light at a time and make sure I cannot run both together. I was excited to open the package . now that u gave the contents away it won't be a surprise ! |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 26, 2015 23:45:18 GMT -5
I'm quite busy tonight so If I don't get back to ya, bare with me..... Volts are only one part of electrical capacitance value. You also have to take into account Amps... Amps, x Volts = watts... Now, watts can be directly translated into heat. To keep it simple, just think of it like this, more watts equals more heat..... Excessive heat is the number 1 killer of R/R's and Stators... If you examine the diagram I produced in the other thread with the R/R's specs, this R/R is spec'd to 10 AMPs MAX for the A/C input... That is not an RMS value... It also list the DC charge output MAX value at 5500 RPM's/6 AMP's/14.6 volts...That is 87.6 watts you have available at MAX charge... Now you're correct in assuming the R/R will automatically adjust now that you have the black wire hooked up, but it can not adjust beyond it's rated specs.. Is what would happen, is you would wind up running it at max capacity and that thing would be very hot to the touch even, then eventually fail to the heat.... Just do the math....you have 87.6 watts available... Them two lights you're talking about is a whopping 120 watts... And that's not talking about your tail, indicator and instrument lights. As to Rcq's setup? Who know's... Like you've seen, you can hook it up and get light, but you're going to be wreaking havoc on you're electrical... He may have an 8 or 11 pole stator with a full wave R/R... Full wave theoretically doubles your electrical output. *edit, now I know why... He only has one... His scoot would have no problems supporting one of these lights. This might sound dumb but , the rr's max dc output is 14.6 volts . with the battery hooked up and with its 12-13 volts , I would expect the regulator would slowly have to keep stepping up the volts to account for the drain on the battery. Or would it all of a sudden be at max output when the lights come on ? The reason i ask this is because The longest I ride one way is about 12-15 min. During the day " no lights " night I would run the lights . I guess my main question is , would the regulator send max voltage to the battery right off the bat or will it slowly raise the current to the battery as lights begin to drain it ? Would I have enough battery power to run the lihts for 15 mins and possibly not draw to much from the regulator ? Or am I just wrong ? My best bet is to just run one light at a time or install the 11 pole stator I have . I would have to buy a new regulator for the 11 pole . The problem isn't voltage but current. The RR senses the draw on the system and shunts as much current to the battery to keep it charged (limiting the voltage to 14.4v). The instant you turned on both H4s the current drain would peg the RR at full bore - so everything the stator produced would be used. I don't see how that would kill the stator, since it's used to going full bore. But the RR would indeed heat up and that would shorten it's lifespan. You have an 11 -pole??? There you go - problem solved! Just get a beefier RR to go with the 11-poles bigger bump. I'd personally still put in switches as I like to be able to have things come on and go off as I want them to, not as some Chinese engineer decided they should. And if you do THAT you can wait for as long as you want to get around to installing the 11-pole big dog. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 26, 2015 23:47:41 GMT -5
I see you guys have all those fancy light up switches... Can you use a light up switch for the kill switch? Like have it only illuminate when the key is turned to on and have it work like normal where it can kill the engine and also prevent starting? Well, sure - just cliup the wire to, say, the CDI and put a switch there. With the switch "OFF" the CDI won't function and the scoot won't run, no matter what's done at the key. So you know - the OReilly $4 illuminated switches light up when ON. If you want it to light up when the scoot is DISABLED (i.e., scoot "off") you would have to rig a little circuit. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 26, 2015 23:52:39 GMT -5
I'm quite busy tonight so If I don't get back to ya, bare with me..... Volts are only one part of electrical capacitance value. You also have to take into account Amps... Amps, x Volts = watts... Now, watts can be directly translated into heat. To keep it simple, just think of it like this, more watts equals more heat..... Excessive heat is the number 1 killer of R/R's and Stators... If you examine the diagram I produced in the other thread with the R/R's specs, this R/R is spec'd to 10 AMPs MAX for the A/C input... That is not an RMS value... It also list the DC charge output MAX value at 5500 RPM's/6 AMP's/14.6 volts...That is 87.6 watts you have available at MAX charge... Now you're correct in assuming the R/R will automatically adjust now that you have the black wire hooked up, but it can not adjust beyond it's rated specs.. Is what would happen, is you would wind up running it at max capacity and that thing would be very hot to the touch even, then eventually fail to the heat.... Just do the math....you have 87.6 watts available... Them two lights you're talking about is a whopping 120 watts... And that's not talking about your tail, indicator and instrument lights. As to Rcq's setup? Who know's... Like you've seen, you can hook it up and get light, but you're going to be wreaking havoc on you're electrical... He may have an 8 or 11 pole stator with a full wave R/R... Full wave theoretically doubles your electrical output. *edit, now I know why... He only has one... His scoot would have no problems supporting one of these lights. This might sound dumb but , the rr's max dc output is 14.6 volts . with the battery hooked up and with its 12-13 volts , I would expect the regulator would slowly have to keep stepping up the volts to account for the drain on the battery. Or would it all of a sudden be at max output when the lights come on ? The reason i ask this is because The longest I ride one way is about 12-15 min. During the day " no lights " night I would run the lights . I guess my main question is , would the regulator send max voltage to the battery right off the bat or will it slowly raise the current to the battery as lights begin to drain it ? Would I have enough battery power to run the lihts for 15 mins and possibly not draw to much from the regulator ? Or am I just wrong ? My best bet is to just run one light at a time or install the 11 pole stator I have . I would have to buy a new regulator for the 11 pole . It doesn't sound dumb... You just don't know, so do what you're doing and ask... That's a sign of smarts, not dummy-ness  ... Dummies just do stuff without asking. The R/R acts in accordance with the load... You flick on lights, R/R instantly detects and tries to compensate. Now, you're battery would act as a buffer and if it was fully charged... Could be 15min, could be 2min, however, when you shut your scoot off you would have to charge it... In addition, even though your battery would be buffing the load, your stator and R/R would try to compensate for the load and run hot....The longer you ride, the more your lights would dim until battery needs to be re-charged... So, you could get away with it for short burst if you recharged at night, but you're still working the heck out of your electrical system and in my opinion, is a bad idea altogether... And something else to consider... I don't even know if your head lamp bezel could support that much heat... Even with the fancy vent holes the deer helped you make... You might melt the thing... Bottom line is this... You're talking to someone who knows this stuff pretty well and would never attempt what you're doing... It's a bad idea in my opinion... Get yourself 2, 35 watt HID or Halogen light and you'll be golden. That's more than enough light for night time driving ...... Even if you install the 11 pole, I would still advise against installing two of those H4's... Listen to Rcq, 1, is more than fine.... Them H4's are BRIGHT!!! |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 23:53:39 GMT -5
This might sound dumb but , the rr's max dc output is 14.6 volts . with the battery hooked up and with its 12-13 volts , I would expect the regulator would slowly have to keep stepping up the volts to account for the drain on the battery. Or would it all of a sudden be at max output when the lights come on ? The reason i ask this is because The longest I ride one way is about 12-15 min. During the day " no lights " night I would run the lights . I guess my main question is , would the regulator send max voltage to the battery right off the bat or will it slowly raise the current to the battery as lights begin to drain it ? Would I have enough battery power to run the lihts for 15 mins and possibly not draw to much from the regulator ? Or am I just wrong ? My best bet is to just run one light at a time or install the 11 pole stator I have . I would have to buy a new regulator for the 11 pole . The problem isn't voltage but current. The RR senses the draw on the system and shunts as much current to the battery to keep it charged (limiting the voltage to 14.4v). The instant you turned on both H4s the current drain would peg the RR at full bore - so everything the stator produced would be used. I don't see how that would kill the stator, since it's used to going full bore. But the RR would indeed heat up and that would shorten it's lifespan. You have an 11 -pole??? There you go - problem solved! Just get a beefier RR to go with the 11-poles bigger bump. I'd personally still put in switches as I like to be able to have things come on and go off as I want them to, not as some Chinese engineer decided they should. And if you do THAT you can wait for as long as you want to get around to installing the 11-pole big dog. Yeh I have an 11 pole stator and flywheel . a member couldn't use it so they sent it to me last year. All I need is to order the RR. I'll hook it up with the switches for now and then later I'll install the 11 pole, maybe . Do u need or want all 11 pole stator . if I don't use it u can have it . |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 26, 2015 23:57:00 GMT -5
I don't see how that would kill the stator, since it's used to going full bore. It's because if he tried pulling that many watts, he would exceed the R/R's ability to shunt away the heat. |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 23:57:06 GMT -5
This might sound dumb but , the rr's max dc output is 14.6 volts . with the battery hooked up and with its 12-13 volts , I would expect the regulator would slowly have to keep stepping up the volts to account for the drain on the battery. Or would it all of a sudden be at max output when the lights come on ? The reason i ask this is because The longest I ride one way is about 12-15 min. During the day " no lights " night I would run the lights . I guess my main question is , would the regulator send max voltage to the battery right off the bat or will it slowly raise the current to the battery as lights begin to drain it ? Would I have enough battery power to run the lihts for 15 mins and possibly not draw to much from the regulator ? Or am I just wrong ? My best bet is to just run one light at a time or install the 11 pole stator I have . I would have to buy a new regulator for the 11 pole . It doesn't sound dumb... You just don't know, so do what you're doing and ask... That's a sign of smarts, not dummy-ness ... Dummies just do stuff without asking. The R/R acts in accordance with the load... You flick on lights, R/R instantly detects and tries to compensate. Now, you're battery would act as a buffer and it was fully charged... Could be 15min, could be 2min, however, when you shut your scoot off you would have to charge it... In addition, even though your battery would be buffing the load, your stator and R/R would try to compensate for the load and run hot....The longer you ride, the more your lights would dim until battery is re-charged... So, you could get away with it for short burst if you recharged at night, but you're still working the heck out of your electrical system and in my opinion, is a bad idea altogether... And something else to consider... I don't even know if your head lamp bezel could support that much heat... Even with the fancy vent holes the deer helped you make... You might melt the thing... Bottom line is this... You're talking to someone who knows this stuff pretty well and would never attempt what you're doing... It's a bad idea in my opinion... Get yourself 2, 35 watt HID or Halogen light and you'll be golden. That's more than enough light for night time driving ...... Even if you install the 11 pole, I would still advise against installing two of those H4's... Listen to Rcq, 1, is more than fine.... Them H4's are BRIGHT!!!That's what I'll do then , I'll just hook them up so I can use one at a time . thanks |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 27, 2015 0:02:26 GMT -5
I'm one of those people who have installed many car audio systems , work installing HVAC , but really never learned the basics of Ac/DC current . in probably should , lol
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 27, 2015 0:08:08 GMT -5
It doesn't sound dumb... You just don't know, so do what you're doing and ask... That's a sign of smarts, not dummy-ness ... Dummies just do stuff without asking. The R/R acts in accordance with the load... You flick on lights, R/R instantly detects and tries to compensate. Now, you're battery would act as a buffer and it was fully charged... Could be 15min, could be 2min, however, when you shut your scoot off you would have to charge it... In addition, even though your battery would be buffing the load, your stator and R/R would try to compensate for the load and run hot....The longer you ride, the more your lights would dim until battery is re-charged... So, you could get away with it for short burst if you recharged at night, but you're still working the heck out of your electrical system and in my opinion, is a bad idea altogether... And something else to consider... I don't even know if your head lamp bezel could support that much heat... Even with the fancy vent holes the deer helped you make... You might melt the thing... Bottom line is this... You're talking to someone who knows this stuff pretty well and would never attempt what you're doing... It's a bad idea in my opinion... Get yourself 2, 35 watt HID or Halogen light and you'll be golden. That's more than enough light for night time driving ...... Even if you install the 11 pole, I would still advise against installing two of those H4's... Listen to Rcq, 1, is more than fine.... Them H4's are BRIGHT!!!That's what I'll do then , I'll just hook them up so I can use one at a time . thanks So, then, George - it's really simple to put in switches (as you know) but i suggest this: I don't use either H4 filament during the day (use the LED stack then) and at night I really only use the high beam. Want to see and be seen !!!!!!!!!!! So - just connect ONE low beam wire, so if you put the low beam on only one light illuminates (you can always simply connect the other H4 low beam later if you want) Then put TWO switches in so you can turn on either or both HIGH beams (or have 'em both off). And - once you see the really cool flasher you will (I think) want to hook it up --- so one more switch for that. three switches total. Want me to draw up a little wiring diagram for ya? |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 27, 2015 0:13:38 GMT -5
I'm one of those people who have installed many car audio systems , work installing HVAC , but really never learned the basics of Ac/DC current . in probably should , lol Knowing basic electrical engineering knowledge is helpful for Car audio and HVAC installations as well... If you get a 1000 watt AMP, you have to know the output of the Alternator.... You ever see a car that when the base hits their lights dim? It's because they didn't do their math.... In addition to being able to support that power, you have to have instant power, so you need a capacitor bank for the quick pounding of the bass line.... HVAC too... Residential and industrial hardly mix as one is 240v the other at 480.... then, some old house only have a service 60 Amps at 240v, gotta be careful your new HVAC doesn't have monster fans and other energy hogs... I believe TVNACMAN does HVAC as a career.. He probably has to do electrical math everyday.... You should hit google one day... Learning just the basic math goes along ways! |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 27, 2015 0:15:26 GMT -5
I should be fine , at the same time its nice to have diagrams . that way if my scoot burns down I can blame you .lol
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 27, 2015 0:16:31 GMT -5
On a totally un-related note... I suck at typing and need to proof read more... I'm constantly having to edit, not because of misspelling and typos, but because I skip, typing words... I think way faster than I type and leave words out of my sentences all the time... Very frustrating.
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