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Post by JerryScript on Mar 13, 2015 2:45:05 GMT -5
I'm not convinced it's rust, it could be overheating damage, hence the whitish ring at the top of the threads.
As stated above, you need to put a fresh clean plug in, then do a plug chop. That means right after installing the new plug, take it on a WOT ride for at least 2 miles (5 is better). Immediately upon returning home, pull the plug and post pictures of it. You want a nice coffee color on the ceramic under the firing tip. Black means too rich (could be ok), white means too lean (not ok).
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Post by JerryScript on Mar 13, 2015 2:46:53 GMT -5
I think it's 100% impossible to draw any conclusion at all without first putting a brand new plug in, running it hard, turning the key off while at high RPM, coasting to a stop, then - on the side of the road - pulling the plug and getting a photo. Without that we have no clue at all what the plug is showing us. A plug chop is a def a good idea , but you can also usually tell if you are running too rich or lean , especially if the plug has a whitish ring after 2400,miles . here is a pic  That picture is WRONG. Notice it shows the white plug as optimal, and the brown plug as lean, that is the opposite of the truth. Only way that "lean" plug is truly lean is if it's so lean it's burning the plug's ceramic. |
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Post by william42 on Mar 13, 2015 5:28:37 GMT -5
This is exactly my point as to why I didn't do mods on my bike. I'm getting conflicting reports even on how to read a photo of a plug. Not my photo, the other photo. So I try to make a conclusion based on everything I read throughout a thread and base my decision from that. There's generally too much conflict so I leave it as is. Again, no offence intended.
Now, I would have to admit, based on what I've read so far, that I'm probably running a little lean. I also base that assumption on the way my scooter starts. It never fires right up. I have to coax it a little after it sits all night. She fires right away if she's been sitting for less than, say, ten hours but after that it takes a few seconds. Like ten seconds.
And down here in Mississippi, during most of the riding season, it frickin' hot! And Humid! I rode about half of December, less than that in January, and only once in February. I started it up the other day just to see how she fared after sitting for a month. All was normal. And I'm a fair weather rider. She stays home if it's raining or if there's a chance of rain. I don't know if any of that pertains to reading a spark plug, but I threw it in there anyway.
I'll get a new plug and do the chop thingy and post a photo for y'alls analysis.
But getting back to the original poster, if you're still reading this, just leave your scooter as-is and follow the manufacturers break-in procedure, then post any issues for these guys to help you with. I even left in the original oil for the first 300 miles. Just like the manufacturer said to do. Maybe it's a special blend for the break-in period? I don't know but I'm pleased with the results my decisions have yielded.
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Post by jerseyboy on Mar 13, 2015 6:27:08 GMT -5
I have this exact scooter and I did absolutely nothing to it except put her together and ride it. It is all stock from the spark plug to the belt. I change the oil with Yamalube 10W40. There's a Yamaha dealer just down the road so that's what I use. The only advice I can give is break it in according to the book. If you try to get too much out of her before she's fully broke in (about a thousand miles) the float bowl will run dry on you and she'll die. I drove 2,400 miles in the year since I've had mine and I can run at wide open throttle now all day and she runs like a champ. And it's still all stock. I haven't even changed the spark plug yet. But I'm going to do that soon as it's warming up again. The guys on this site know a lot more about scooters than do I, and they're going to tell you to do this and do that. I listened, thought it over, then decided against doing any mods and I'm glad I did. She runs just fine right out of the box. I figure if the Chinese can put a Space Station into orbit, they can certainly make a scooter. No offense fellas. It will run fine out of the box for a few years,,but eventually it will need lines,tires,valve adjust,belt and all the maintenance....also if you are running WOT all time your just asking for trouble sooner or later,,more than likely sooner....lol..I will run my scooter up to near 70mph at times and cruise 45-50 all day,,but running WOT is like smoking 2 packs of butts and drinking 12 beers a day,,it will catch up with you. Good scoot,if you like the way it runs,,just go over it and tighten everything up,,do the oil changes,lube everything,,and enjoy the ride....I ran mine stock for a few years,,a pipe,UNI POD filter,and upjet is the best thing you can do for a restricted stock motor..next scoot I get is getting that right off the bat,,just to open it up and allow the motor to run more efficient. Tom |
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Post by tvnacman on Mar 13, 2015 7:24:23 GMT -5
I'm real big on valve adjustments, don't wait do it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Change the oil gear oil put in a fresh spark plug and then in a hundred miles do a plug read.  John |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 7:29:34 GMT -5
A plug chop is a def a good idea , but you can also usually tell if you are running too rich or lean , especially if the plug has a whitish ring after 2400,miles . here is a pic That picture is WRONG. Notice it shows the white plug as optimal, and the brown plug as lean, that is the opposite of the truth. Only way that "lean" plug is truly lean is if it's so lean it's burning the plug's ceramic. I know what u mean , this pic kinda bothered me after I posted it and I wrote that most of the time the electrode is coffee brown if running optimal. I should have found a better pic. My bad |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 7:52:01 GMT -5
This is exactly my point as to why I didn't do mods on my bike. I'm getting conflicting reports even on how to read a photo of a plug. Not my photo, the other photo. So I try to make a conclusion based on everything I read throughout a thread and base my decision from that. There's generally too much conflict so I leave it as is. Again, no offence intended. Now, I would have to admit, based on what I've read so far, that I'm probably running a little lean. I also base that assumption on the way my scooter starts. It never fires right up. I have to coax it a little after it sits all night. She fires right away if she's been sitting for less than, say, ten hours but after that it takes a few seconds. Like ten seconds. And down here in Mississippi, during most of the riding season, it frickin' hot! And Humid! I rode about half of December, less than that in January, and only once in February. I started it up the other day just to see how she fared after sitting for a month. All was normal. And I'm a fair weather rider. She stays home if it's raining or if there's a chance of rain. I don't know if any of that pertains to reading a spark plug, but I threw it in there anyway. I'll get a new plug and do the chop thingy and post a photo for y'alls analysis. But getting back to the original poster, if you're still reading this, just leave your scooter as-is and follow the manufacturers break-in procedure, then post any issues for these guys to help you with. I even left in the original oil for the first 300 miles. Just like the manufacturer said to do. Maybe it's a special blend for the break-in period? I don't know but I'm pleased with the results my decisions have yielded. Sorry about that buddy , I should have changed the pic. But when it comes down to it , I believe the white ring tells the story, that's kinda why I posted about going by that . if you stick with us you should always figure out the right way to do something. I agree conflicting info sucks, but to be honest i should have changed the pic instead of trying to correct it verbally. Sorta verbally I guess I'm typing, lol |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 8:39:00 GMT -5
When it comes to checking the plug after so many miles , what stands out to me is , of course the white ring , and the fact that your electrode still has a good bit of white on it , especially after 2400 miles. A plug chop will tell you right off the batt how you are running "if done right" . also after running the scoot for so many miles , your plug will tell you how you are running. I don't think I said anything new did I ? Lol
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Post by william42 on Mar 13, 2015 8:44:11 GMT -5
It aint no biggy really. The only way I'm going to learn this stuff is if I participate and try things. It's good conversation at the very least. And let me clarify my vague meaning when I said I can ride at WOT all day. I can, but I don't. I too ride mostly at 45-50 mph. Mostly because that's the speed limit and I also don't want to stress that one little cylinder of mine for too long. Especially in this heat. I just wanted to connect the WOT riding before the break-in period brought on an issue that really wouldn't have been an issue had I followed the manufacturers break-in speeds per miles put on the odometer. I used to not be able to run at WOT for more than 5 or 10 seconds because the float bowl would run dry. I still don't know why that happened but now I can run at WOT "all day" (if I wanted to) and I have plenty of fuel. I'm a mechanic by trade, just not an internal combustion mechanic. I keep an eye on valve adjustments, tire pressure, oil changes, oiling here and there, that sort of thing. And I don't ride in the rain because lord only knows what will happen to the electrical system and connections and switches when they get wet. I'm just not taking that chance. This is my first scooter so I'm going to have to learn the hard way how and why things are the way they are. But I keep a sharp eye and ear out for things. She'll tell me when she's not doing so well. It is then that I will park her and not put on another mile until the problem is found and resolved. I'll go get a new plug this morning, then on Saturday I'll do a hard 5 mile ride in a 55 zone and pull the plug, take a photo and post it for y'all to have a look at. But I'm still going to make the final decision for my Betsy Mae!  |
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Post by ccarmac1 on Mar 13, 2015 10:35:57 GMT -5
OK!!!! Now i know when to change my spark plug! great info here guys thanks! learn a few things though, keep an extra belt and use 10w 50 oil, and dont mod the scooter.
dont have the scooter yet as its currently being shipped but once i do be sure that ill post anything and everything of it, just in case you guys manage to see something wrong with it
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Post by william42 on Mar 13, 2015 11:26:05 GMT -5
Now I didn't mean to imply that you SHOULDN'T mod your scooter, that's up to you. I just decided not to, at least for the short term. What happens down the road will almost certainly change things. But initially, I left mine as-is and it worked out ok for me.
And as for running too lean, what are the long term affects of such a condition? And I have no plans of ever disconnecting the emissions.
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Post by retrobrian on Mar 13, 2015 12:06:34 GMT -5
I have the BMS Chelsea 150. same engine. The scoot def runs lean. the only mods I have done is ....change out the fuel and vac lines... drilled out the air/fuel mix screw (best mod to date) to richen the mix... and a new coil/cdi. At 1000 miles I adjusted the valves... really didnt need it. Scoot runs great every time!
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Post by jerseyboy on Mar 13, 2015 13:41:29 GMT -5
Yeah,,the optimal looks pretty hot and lean too me....the one,s John posted are closer to the real deal..
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 14:33:51 GMT -5
Now I didn't mean to imply that you SHOULDN'T mod your scooter, that's up to you. I just decided not to, at least for the short term. What happens down the road will almost certainly change things. But initially, I left mine as-is and it worked out ok for me. And as for running too lean, what are the long term affects of such a condition? And I have no plans of ever disconnecting the emissions. Higher engine temps , shorter engine life , top end destruction , many bad results from running lean. PS . the top end destruction sounds kinda harsh ,lol , also u do not need to remove emmisions to not run lean just get an unsealed carb or unseal it yourself .then either adjust the air fuel or upjet . no big deal. |
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Post by JerryScript on Mar 13, 2015 14:47:00 GMT -5
Running too lean can lead to overheating, which can lead to ring failure, valves melting, I've even seen pistons melted from running WOT for long periods when too lean. Lean is great for emissions testing, but not for engine life and performance.
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