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Post by xyshannen on Sept 11, 2014 14:25:48 GMT -5
So stoked right now, just got back from a test ride and the Lance broke 60. Well 63 according to my speedo, and we all know chinese speedos are super accurate. :)Anyway, I'm happy because before my mods it would barely reach 50. During my ride I was cruising and when I looked down at the speedo I was doing 50, and still had a lots of throttle left so I gunned it. I'm still running a little lean because after about 5 seconds of going over 60 it started cutting out on me. So now back to the shop to up my jet size and do a little tooning.
List of mods
yanked the old airbox off and put on a uni
Hoca 115mm variator 12 gram rollers
Performance exhaust with a true 1inch header
Performance clutch
Hot coil w NGK iridium plug
Cooling fan scoop
Also I have a makeshift cold air intake. On the left side I installed another cooling scoop to a hole in the body panel and just behind that I have my uni filter using large radiator hose to attach to the carb. Won't help much during idle but should feed a good bit of cold air to the carb wile cruising. If nothing else, this is helping to keep my engine compartment significantly cooler. Before you could heat your lunch in my under seat compartment. The body on this Lance doesn't do an air cooled engine any favors.
I bought a DC fired CDI but come to find out the 2008 Vintage switched over to an AC from the DC they used in 2007. I also bought a 30mm carb and intake manifold only to find that the carb is too big and so is the intake. The cross beam wont allow me to use either together or mix matched with the stock carb or intake. Oh well, best laid plans of mice and men. I did do a little port work on the stock intake to open it up a little. Now I'm looking at a 2.75" intake riser. Unless someone has a better idea? So I can go over to the better carb and intake.
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Post by rockynv on Sept 11, 2014 21:21:38 GMT -5
The cutting out is usually the fuel pump not being able to keep up with refilling the fuel bowl at speed. Lance was pretty good at putting the correct jets in the carb in 2007 but...
The speedometer on my 2007 was spot on accurate so when it said 65 you were actually going 65 mph.
With the Hoca variator and everything cleaned up along with the valves properly adjusted I really did not have to otherwise modify the bike to get a solid 65 mph aside from the higher output coil.
Once verifed that you have a leak free intake and a clean fuel system, properly adjusted valves are really the next must to maintain a good fuel pump action at high speed.
Changing the intake or the porting of the airbox can also have a detrimental effect on vacuum pulse which is required to maintain fuel flow with a vacuum fuel pump.
I did try a Hydrogen/Brown Gas system on the Lance and that did help a bit with maintaining higher speeds and over time decarbonized the piston and cylinder. Clean piston rings are more free in their grooves and give a better seal for a better intake pulse.
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Post by xyshannen on Sept 12, 2014 14:22:54 GMT -5
65 huh? Yeah sounds doable, it was still accelerating before it cut out. I'm thinking it's too lean due to the problem was the same @ 45 mph when I fo sho was running lean, and now at 45 I can run all day. It didn't do it's thing until I went over 60 with it. As for top speed, I don't ever intend to take this thing over 65, it's just way too sketchy on a large open road here. Remember I'm less than 20 miles from a beach and near a massive river that cuts through the center of the city. We get really strong winds in open spaces like 4 lane roads. Add the wind to the shape of this scoot to the shape of me (6'2" 48" chest) plus speed all equals a bad idea.
I'm fairly certain I'm in need of a valve job, but have been putting it off because I'm not wanting to drop the motor out of this thing more than I have to and plan on putting a new head on next month. For the time being I can live with how it performs. It's already like a totally different scoot.
I did rejet the carb from 110 to a 120 main and now it's running a tad on the rich side (no cutting out at speed). I'll drop back to the 115 and see how she does. I'm getting dam fast at pulling this carb and putting it back on.
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Post by rockynv on Sept 12, 2014 22:00:42 GMT -5
While you need to pull the engine to replace the head you can do a valve adjustment after simply removing the seat bucket. The threaded parts of the frame are very mild steel and do not hold up to much disassembley and will start to fail after a while.
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Post by urbanmadness on Sept 13, 2014 0:45:07 GMT -5
What you are describing is typical. The vacuum fuel pump needs pulsed vacuum to operate. When the throttle is open all the way, the engine is making no vacuum, no vacuum, no fuel pump. It will run until the fuel bowel empties.
Here is a simple test. When it starts to cut out, close the throttle for a second or two and see if she comes back to life.
The only way to get rid of the problem is to install a low pressure electric fuel pump or move the fuel tank, above the carb. Running bigger jets is only going to make the problem worse, as it will use more fuel on the top end.
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Post by xyshannen on Sept 13, 2014 8:43:49 GMT -5
 That's exactly what it's doing. Yeah I'm not going to mess around trying to get the current pump to work properly, I'll just stick an electric on there and be done with it. Anyone know off hand what volume of pump I would need? I imagine it's not a whole lot. Thanks guys...If not for ya'll I would have been trying to fix the wrong problem. Rocky, I bet the bottom two bolts on the head and the exhaust valve are a real PITA to get at tho.
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Post by rockynv on Sept 13, 2014 10:11:02 GMT -5
That's exactly what it's doing. Yeah I'm not going to mess around trying to get the current pump to work properly, I'll just stick an electric on there and be done with it. Anyone know off hand what volume of pump I would need? I imagine it's not a whole lot. Thanks guys...If not for ya'll I would have been trying to fix the wrong problem. Rocky, I bet the bottom two bolts on the head and the exhaust valve are a real to get at tho. The bigger high speed jet is draining the fuel off faster so you have to find balance between jetting and pump capacity. Setting the carbs float a tad higher so there is more fuel in the bowl can also help get you over the next hill without running the bowl dry as quickly. I am 6' 0", a 50 and wear XXL gloves so not really that aerodynamic either and yes its a bit tight in there but can be done. I was having to adjust the valves on my Lance once or twice a month due to the distance I commute and the long rides in the country I am prone to taking so it was almost to the point I could get in there and do this in my sleep. Once you've done it enough times you learn how to get to the valve cover bolts and the way to get to the valve adjusters without even looking. One ride in the country when roadway temps are over 100 degrees would sometimes put on enough miles to require an oil change under the severe service schedule and sometimes I would have to do 2 valve adjustments in one month. I found that using premium gas allowed me to go longer between valve adjustments. It is not all that unusual for me to just go for a ride and put on 300 or more miles looking for a great country cafe' or dinner that's a throwback to the early 1900's and not just another cookie cutter big chain franchise. The new bike is quite a bit better for that type of service since oil changes are every 6,250 miles and adjustments are on a 12,500 or so mile schedule. |
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Post by xyshannen on Sept 13, 2014 11:16:35 GMT -5
And that's one more reason why I'm bout to change the entire top end. I'm going to go to a 58.5 bb with a big port head and a stroker crank. ATM I'm having a dilemma trying to figure out what's the best head to go with. I'll be making a thread for that issue soon.
You are going to love this. I was mistaken about the dc CDI. When I hooked the new unit up it ran but just barley. I just figured I had an AC system. Now that I actually tested everything I found out I was wrong and I do indeed have a DC system. So now I'm left scratching my head trying to figure out why it doesn't work. When I look at the wiring diagram for an AC based gy6 and the DC CDI I purchased both show one of the wires from the 2 prong plug going to one of the prongs of the 4 prong plug. My harnessing missing both wires from both plugs. The 2 wire plug has only one wire going to it and the 4 prong plug only has 3 wires. I'm going to make the missing jumper and see if that helps.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 13, 2014 12:54:15 GMT -5
xyshannen,
Good going! Looks like you discovered the same things I did with my own old 150. On mine, the variator, rollers, CDI, coil and ESPECIALLY the 1" exhaust made the most difference. The cooling-fan scoop REALLY did help cool the engine too. Here in Texas, we get a lot of over-100 degree weather, and adding a scoop lowered my oil-temp by at least 5 degrees. I also made an extension, putting the scoop out past the plastics, and THAT lowered the oil-temp by 20 degrees! Below 100, I'm not sure how much good a scoop does, but it certainly helps on REALLY hot days, and, when running fast, and pushing the engine.
You now have not only a great-looking ride, but a pretty fast one too! I know there are numerous riders who seem to get over 60mph from their 150's, but when one will run a consistent, true 55, with a little left over, it's doing very well. We sometimes ask a LOT from 9hp... And once in a while, we actually get it!
You also discovered that ingenious "cat-back" brace that totally frustrates alterations to the carb and air-filter... LOL! That little piece of engineering seems to ALWAYS get in the way of SOMETHING... LOL!
Anyway, once you get the fuel-delivery right, it will be sweet to be able to sneak onto the freeway once in a while!
Ride FAST... and ride SAFE!
Leo in Texas
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Post by xyshannen on Sept 13, 2014 18:12:48 GMT -5
It was your use of the scoop that convinced me to give it a try. I know these lil engines get hot and running one in 100 degree weather is asking for trouble. Especially when running one hard. The way I see it, anything I can do to help keep things cool is well worth doing.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 17, 2014 21:29:05 GMT -5
It was your use of the scoop that convinced me to give it a try. I know these lil engines get hot and running one in 100 degree weather is asking for trouble. Especially when running one hard. The way I see it, anything I can do to help keep things cool is well worth doing. Glad it inspired you! It really DID make a slight difference to add the scoop, but made a MAJOR difference when I got it out "in the wind"... Keep up that great leatherwork!
Leo in Texas
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Post by xyshannen on Sept 18, 2014 6:23:04 GMT -5
oldchopperguy Thanks brother! BTW Where did you happen to find that chrome you used on the scoop extension?
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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 18, 2014 13:42:59 GMT -5
oldchopperguy Thanks brother! BTW Where did you happen to find that chrome you used on the scoop extension? You're most welcome!
I got the chrome tape at a local Auto Zone parts store. I've seen it at different stores though. It's amazing stuff... Very "mirror" like. It IS very thin, and DOES show ANY imperfections though. Even sanding marks will show through. Over the PVC pipe, if you make sure there's no sanding grit, the tape looks VERY convincingly like real chrome, or polished stainless steel. Should go great with your exhaust!
Quick note: For the scoop-extension, I used a "female-to-female" PVC connector, rather than the actual PVC pipe itself. The connector was the perfect size to adapt to my fan-shroud, and the scoop. Just a tad bigger diameter than the PVC pipe. It has a ridge inside, for the pipe to butt against, and I sanded it off with a drum-sanding-disk in a drill, since I wanted to use more than half the length of the connector, and did not want the little ridge disrupting the air-flow.
I also made stand-offs from aluminum knitting needles (shown in the pix) so the scoop could be tightened down without stressing the little plastic tabs. They WILL break off easily, but I rode over 5 years with that extension with no problems. The stand-offs do relieve all stress on the scoop, and, make it look finished. You could use brass or aluminum hobby tubing rather than the color-anodized knitting needles... I just had them on-hand from other projects... LOL! It looks like a lot of work, but only takes an hour or two, to fab up the whole thing.
If you decide to also use a chrome fan shroud like I did, please note they are BRITTLE like the scoops. They break easily, like the chrome scoops. They appear to be STYRENE rather than the soft, pliable plastic on the factory shrouds. Your engine is pretty well hidden, so the black shroud is barely noticeable anyway.
Best wishes on the project! It's worthwhile...
Ride safe,
Leo
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Post by xyshannen on Sept 18, 2014 15:48:44 GMT -5
I do need a new fan shroud because I got a lil too close with the torch heating and bending my header pipe. So thanks for the tip on the chrome ones. I wasn't too worried about going chrome because like you said mine is pretty well hidden but I figured since I have to buy a new one, some bling won't hurt. This well hidden part is also why I'm wanting too adopt PVC extension. So again my hat's off to you for your creative thinking.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 19, 2014 12:23:07 GMT -5
Xyshannen,
Glad I could help! As for your fan-shroud, sometimes you can find the chrome ones cheaper than the black, factory parts! Back when I got mine, it seems that factory replacements were around $20, and I got my chrome one for $8... Same chrome one was listed on eBay for $8 on up to $89... from the SAME seller! You have to really look at what's available.
If you can't find what you want, cheap enough... Let me know and I'll see if I can find my old black factory Xingyue cooling-fan shroud. I think most all GY6 versions are interchangeable. I probably have it around somewhere, and I'll send it to you.
Ride safe,
Leo
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