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Post by blacraven on Aug 25, 2014 6:17:38 GMT -5
2010 Shanghai Beta 50cc 4 stroke. (soon to be 100cc?) Hello everyone, I need some advice on what Rollers/Sliders and Clutch Springs to use.( I didn't look at the clutch pads yet, how often do they need to be changed? 5000 miles on the scooter.) Ill be satisfied if it can run like when I first bought it with only 5 miles on it. in 2011 Did 45-50 no problem and I never had a real concern taking off. There is a big two block hill leading to my house also so this is a daily factor. I wouldn't mind a faster take off and more top speed wouldn't hurt, Mainly for safety reasons. I never really managed to get it back to normal no matter how many valve adjustments, carb cleanings and an NGK plug. I purchased some 5g rollers and a new belt but couldn't get the bike running to try them out yet. I just purchased this: 100cc Big Bore Kit Performance Cam Performance CDI & Coil GY6 139QMB 50mmKit Includes 50mm Big Bore Cylinder Kit With Assembled Head, Performance Racing CDI (AC Fired), High Performance Ignition Coil, Taiwan Performance Racing A9 Cam, Kei Hin Carburetor With High Flow Air Filter
· Head is Completely Assembled Ready to Install with matching Rocker Arms works with 64mm or 69mm Valve Length
· 50mm Piston Set With Rings & Wrist Pin
· Big Bore Main Jet, Rocker Arm Set, 8 Gram Roller Weights, Oil Pump & Sprocket, Intake & Exhaust Studs & Complete Gasket Set
It has a 19mm Carb, and a #  main jet . Ill be installing as soon as it comes, But I don't know if I should install the 8g rollers that this came with or keep the 5g ones, or are 5g way too light for a bbk? Should I use Sliders? I know what rollers/sliders do but I'm no tuning expert so I'm using you guys expertise to help me Also, The Clutch and springs. I have the stock in there now but I'm not sure if my clutch pads are due to be changed(5000k miles on it) and if I need different springs? Taller Gears Question: I ofter hear talk about "Taller Gears" for more top speed, Should I get Taller Gears? More top speed is nice but if my bike will perform like it did when it was new then I don't really care about more top speed. Or, Is my bike just worn out and I need Taller Gears to make it go fast again? And, Do I need a Performance Variator also? Please help so I can make my purchases today, The bbk is on its way and I wanna order whatever I might need today, so I can have everything I need at the same time so I can get rolling again. Thanks for all your help. Also I didn't get an answer on trying to finish up my last repair( Link to thread)but im hoping the coil and CDI will solve my spark problem since I already changed the stator. |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 25, 2014 8:18:20 GMT -5
How's it going , I'd go with a 1500 rpm main and 1500rpm clutch springs . When I comes to the roller weights I'm guessing the stock weights were 8 grams .now that you have 5 gram weights I'd order a set of 7 grams so you can tune the cvt in the way that feels best for you after the bbk is installed . You can mix the 7's and 5's to get 6 grams or the 8's and 7's to get 7.5 grams . If you want you can also get a set of 6 grams so you can fine tune to cvt to 5.5 , or 6.5 if needed . Also how are the 8's ? " how old, are they wore out ?" You may want to pic up new 8's also . You won't really know until you start to mess with them . Many things come into play like weight of the rider , the kind of riding you'll be doing , etc.
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Post by RapidJim on Aug 25, 2014 8:47:13 GMT -5
One suggestion. Once you get your CVT tuned the way you want it using rollers, I would then switch to Sliders. Reason being is that rollers develope flats spots as they wear, where sliders do not. Sliders also give you a better engagement.
To get a direct interchange between rollers and sliders, go 1 gram higher on your sliders. The reason being is sliders do not need as much force to throw them out, so you do not loose 500-600 rpms like you would with every gram of rollers. Sliders expect around 300 rpm change verses 500-600 rpm changes with rollers.
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Post by blacraven on Aug 25, 2014 23:50:23 GMT -5
How's it going , I'd go with a 1500 rpm main and 1500rpm clutch springs . When I comes to the roller weights I'm guessing the stock weights were 8 grams .now that you have 5 gram weights I'd order a set of 7 grams so you can tune the cvt in the way that feels best for you after the bbk is installed . You can mix the 7's and 5's to get 6 grams or the 8's and 7's to get 7.5 grams . If you want you can also get a set of 6 grams so you can fine tune to cvt to 5.5 , or 6.5 if needed . Also how are the 8's ? " how old, are they wore out ?" You may want to pic up new 8's also . You won't really know until you start to mess with them . Many things come into play like weight of the rider , the kind of riding you'll be doing , etc. The stock had flat spots so I got the 5g rollers. The bbk comes with 8g rollers. I weigh 186.lbs. I don't need a NASCAR take off just something nice and quick to get me in and out of traffic without getting hit. My original top end was about 45-50? (I was able to max out the speedometer needle without too much of a problem on a flat) That would be cool with me. I wouldn't mind installing the "Taller Gears" if I need to but, one concern I have is, Does this mess with my RPMs and will it strain my motor in a bad way? Also the hill leading to my house is a factor but im hearing great things about the bbk and hill climbing. |
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Post by blacraven on Aug 25, 2014 23:53:31 GMT -5
One suggestion. Once you get your CVT tuned the way you want it using rollers, I would then switch to Sliders. Reason being is that rollers develope flats spots as they wear, where sliders do not. Sliders also give you a better engagement. To get a direct interchange between rollers and sliders, go 1 gram higher on your sliders. The reason being is sliders do not need as much force to throw them out, so you do not loose 500-600 rpms like you would with every gram of rollers. Sliders expect around 300 rpm change verses 500-600 rpm changes with rollers. Thanks, im definitely going to get some sliders. |
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Post by millsc on Aug 26, 2014 23:33:32 GMT -5
The 1500 main springs needs heavier weights try 7 or 8 gram sliders
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Post by blacraven on Aug 28, 2014 5:54:31 GMT -5
The 1500 main springs needs heavier weights try 7 or 8 gram sliders Ok so do I get the 1500 rpm main spring and 1500 rpm small springs, Along with the 8 gram sliders? The bbk came with 8 gram rollers and I heard a few posters say that I would have to go 1 gram heavier when switching to sliders. Please explain... |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 28, 2014 9:30:59 GMT -5
The 1500rpm main spring dosent really need heavier weights . The whole reason you use a heavier rated spring is to up your rpms in the low to mid range . If you up the weights your defeating the purpose . I use a 2000 rpm main and I am using stock clutch springs. I'd get a few sets 6-8 grams . I personally don't care for sliders especially Koso sliders . I've had them turn out of place it the variator . But many do like them . Also your main clutch spring will have a break in period inwhich it will loosen up , so it's nice to have a few different size rollers or sliders to work with . If you want to get the most out of your engine your gonna want to keep the rpms around 7500 on a straight run and no more than 8000 rpms down hill .
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 28, 2014 13:27:24 GMT -5
Listen to Millsc, he has built more 50cc motors than anyone on here and knows what works and what does not work. And by all means do not overcarb it, rookies always do that thinking bigger is better. The problem is the bigger carbs let a lot of air in and the creates a lot of turbalance in the venturi and do not match the Intake on the motor. The intake opening on the head is made to fit a certain size carb, you stick a big carb on now what you have is a lip all around.
Take a nickel and a dime an put them together and you will see what I mean. The nickel is the Carbs new Intake Manifold and the dime is the opening on the head. The openings have to match otherwise the flow of air and fuel is greatly disturbed and does not flow smoothly into the motor. That is why if your familiar with hotrods the intake manifold can take just about any size carb, BUT they have plates that bolt onto the intake to match the size of the carb and the carb bolts onto the plate. Not to many people really know that and is why many run into problems and or the scooter motors which are over carbed do not run as well as one with a good match.
Alleyoop
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Post by blacraven on Aug 28, 2014 14:53:59 GMT -5
Listen to Millsc, he has built more 50cc motors than anyone on here and knows what works and what does not work. And by all means do not overcarb it, rookies always do that thinking bigger is better. The problem is the bigger carbs let a lot of air in and the creates a lot of turbalance in the venturi and do not match the Intake on the motor. The intake opening on the head is made to fit a certain size carb, you stick a big carb on now what you have is a lip all around. Take a nickel and a dime an put them together and you will see what I mean. The nickel is the Carbs new Intake Manifold and the dime is the opening on the head. The openings have to match otherwise the flow of air and fuel is greatly disturbed and does not flow smoothly into the motor. That is why if your familiar with hotrods the intake manifold can take just about any size carb, BUT they have plates that bolt onto the intake to match the size of the carb and the carb bolts onto the plate. Not to many people really know that and is why many run into problems and or the scooter motors which are over carbed do not run as well as one with a good match. Alleyoop Thanks Alley, I really respect your opinion, your kinda the only one I listen to. I'll be ordering both the 1500 rpm springs And some sliders, I'm gonna probably try the 8 g rollers that came with my kit and see how that feels. If I like it then I'll order the 8 g sliders or which ever weight will give me the nicest ride. |
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 28, 2014 15:04:52 GMT -5
Millsc builds a lot of 50cc motors for customers as well as for himself, and he has his own asphalt smokers.  He is a very good mechanic and knows how to tune for whatever a customers wants. I just try and warn folks of what to watch out for and not fall prey to some performance parts that dealers claim and really are not. Alleyoop |
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Post by blacraven on Aug 28, 2014 18:05:14 GMT -5
I just orders the 1500 rpm springs set And the 8 gram rollers. I'll be installing the bbk this evening, I need some advice, the bbk kit came with the # main jet; how do properly adjust the air/fuel mix or do I not worry about that with the new carb? Is that stuff already adjusted on a new carb and do I just install the main jet? |
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 28, 2014 20:40:09 GMT -5
Just install it the way it comes and see if it starts up you can fine tune it after it is up and running and idles for at least 5 minutes to let the Enricher cut off the extra fuel. If it appears to be running good the way it came try it out.
Alleyoop
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 28, 2014 20:50:27 GMT -5
I just orders the 1500 rpm springs set And the 8 gram rollers. I'll be installing the bbk this evening, I need some advice, the bbk kit came with the # main jet; how do properly adjust the air/fuel mix or do I not worry about that with the new carb? Is that stuff already adjusted on a new carb and do I just install the main jet? How's it going blacraven , go to hear you went with the rollers , I can tune a cvt just as good if not better then anyone on here . Alley is right about one thing that's you don't want to over jet . But if u ever want better performance you can go with a bigger carb , of course you will want to make sure you have bigger ports from the manifold to the exhaust . Some rookies don't realize that a bigger carb will pull more air allowing for more fuel to pass through the engine . Facts don't lie , plus I have a proven setup . Also it's always good to listen to more then just one person on hear , you'll find out that you can learn much more this way . |
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Post by blacraven on Aug 28, 2014 20:52:37 GMT -5
Just install it the way it comes and see if it starts up you can fine tune it after it is up and running and idles for at least 5 minutes to let the Enricher cut off the extra fuel. If it appears to be running good the way it came try it out. Alleyoop Ok, so do I not put in the # main jet that it came with, just put the carb in plain? Or are you saying, install it with the # that it came with but don't touch the air/fuel unless I have to and after it's ran for a while? Also please let me know if I should order the taller gears tonight and if so, which ones do you reccomend and how will the taller gears affect my Rpms/performance? And does taller gears mean I have to retune the CVT with different springs/sliders? Or can I keep what I have for now? Thanks in advance |
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main jet.
..BAD TO THE BONE..