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Post by eman on Jul 18, 2014 13:27:51 GMT -5
If i park my scooter and don't start it for a couple of weeks I have to spin it over quite a few times before it will start. It seems to me the fuel bowl is going dry and the fuel won't fill the bowl as it takes pulsing vacum to open the fuel shutoff on the bottom of the tank. if I use the scooter regularly there is no problem.
Anyone have this problem? Is there a fix? My scooter isn't a daily ride, I use it on weekends only and not every weekend.
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Post by UniqueSP on Jul 18, 2014 14:11:02 GMT -5
isnt that what the enricher or choke is for? some are automatic some are manual depending if you have a stock carb or after market one. If your bowl is going dry have you checked for leaks? I have left mine for weeks up to months also and usually all i had to do was pull up the choke (I had a aftermarket flatside carburetor) to get it to start.
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Post by geh3333 on Jul 18, 2014 20:09:42 GMT -5
The only time mine does that is if it sits awhile and the battery loses some charge . Next time after it sits long jump it with your car and see if it starts up quicker . These batteries go bad very easy .
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 18, 2014 21:31:58 GMT -5
I agree just probably a weak battery and not turning it over fast enough and then it requires more cranking to suck in the fuel. Cranking over quickly produces more suction and sucks in fuel much quicker than if the motor is turning over slowly.
So if you have a trickle charger when put away put it on the charge you can buy the JUNIOR BATTERY TENDER and leave it plugged in for months if you need to and if the battery is good it will keep the charge up over 80%.
Alleyoop
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Post by pmatulew on Jul 19, 2014 6:14:45 GMT -5
I have the same problem, but it doesn't take weeks. If I ride my 150 every day or every other day the motor will start on the first or second attempt. (And yes it's already tuned and adjusted as well as it's ever been.) If I haven't ridden the scooter for more than a few days, it's very difficult to start. It may take 20 or 30 bursts of the starter before it finally catches. I don't believe it's the battery because it valiantly keeps on cranking the motor, long after I have lost my patience.
So what else could it be? My scoot has a low mounted fuel tank and a high mounted fuel pump. (A new Mikuni). But even if somehow the pump and the line to the tank had drained backward, there should still be enough fuel in the carburetor bowl to start and run the engine for several seconds. Enough to re-pressurize the system anyway. I've considered re-mounting the fuel pump someplace closer to the fuel tank per suggestions that the vacuum pumps push better than they pull. Haven't gotten around to doing that yet.
Fuel drying up in the carburetor bowl? I am skeptical of this idea. I've had many other machines over the years go extended period of time and still fire right up.
Electric choke? That may be worth investigating. My engine never really has a high idle at startup. It just starts and runs. If the choke isn't fully engaging, that would make it difficult to start.
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Post by tvnacman on Jul 19, 2014 7:26:45 GMT -5
sometimes you need to prime the system with fuel . I have to prime mine if its been sitting a week or more . squirt some fuel in the vac line then crank it . It works like a charm everytime . You should check and adjust the valves too .
John
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Post by geh3333 on Jul 19, 2014 8:51:50 GMT -5
Eman , I'm sure you just have a battery problem . The easiest way to find out would be jumping your scoot after it sits for a few weeks to see if it starts right up . If this is the problem you'll probably need a new battery and remember to connect a trickle charger up to it if it sits for awhile . I've had to buy a new battery after every winter because I let the scoot and battery sit outside in the cold . And once these batteries start to go bad there is usually no bringing them back . last winter I had a trickle charger connected to the battery but I made the mistake of leaving it outside in the cold , and since it was a very cold winter here in pa the battery still didn't keep a full charge .
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Post by southerner on Jul 19, 2014 12:49:43 GMT -5
If i park my scooter and don't start it for a couple of weeks I have to spin it over quite a few times before it will start. Anyone have this problem? I can not get mine to start at all during the winter and it is difficult to impossible to start when the temp gets below about 50 degrees. Last year I bought a new battery when it was still cold and it would still not start. Once the temp rises to about 50 and above it would start easily. I even tried kick starting but the placement of the kick starter makes it very difficult to use (and painful). |
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 19, 2014 14:09:24 GMT -5
All you guys have a carb that is not adjusted right, your problem is not enough fuel or to much fuel either case will cause hard starting AS well as valves being tight and loosing compression. If you guys would look in the tips and tricks section and follow the 4T or 2T carb tuning you would not be having a lot of your problems. That is provided the valves are not tight.
Now about these HIGH mounted Fuel Pumps, just remember the Fuel Pump needs fuel to be AT the PUMP to be able to then pump it to the Carb. If the hose from the Tank is going UP to the Fuel Pump and there is not enough pressure of gas to allow the hose to be filled with gas and have it reach the PUMP you then have a DRY pump with no gas to pump to the carb Until it creates enough Suction to get the fuel to the pump. If your gas tank is low on fuel there will not be enough gas weight to have the fuel fill the hose and reach the pump.
I suggest AT LEAST have the pump even with the Fuel Outlet from the tank and you will always have fuel at the pump. A little lower would be better as you know fluids do run better downhill REMEMBER the ROMAN AQUANAUTS . Then I hear guys tell me well the FACTORY MOUNTED it there they know better which to that I say(SURE THEY DO), just like the EPA requiring the carbs to be set so lean that only will run half way decent in very hot weather. But get that scoot in below 70 degree weather and it will not run.
My .02, advice and suggestions you can do whatever you like.
Alleyoop
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 19, 2014 14:12:58 GMT -5
All you guys have a carb that is not adjusted right, your problem is not enough fuel or to much fuel either case will cause hard starting AS well as valves being tight and loosing compression. If you guys would look in the tips and tricks section and follow the 4T or 2T carb tuning you would not be having a lot of your problems. That is provided the valves are not tight. So the FIRST THING is to check your valves and adjust them 50cc's both valves .003 inchs 150cc's both .004 inchs you can go 1 more on the EXHAUST valve if you want, .004 on the 50s and .005 on the 150s, the 250s+ .004 intake and .006 on the exhaust. Some set the 50s to .002 which is rather tight and will close up pretty quick and you will be doing it more frequently.
Now about these HIGH mounted Fuel Pumps, just remember the Fuel Pump needs fuel to be AT the PUMP to be able to then pump it to the Carb. If the hose from the Tank is going UP to the Fuel Pump and there is not enough pressure of gas to allow the hose to be filled with gas and have it reach the PUMP you then have a DRY pump with no gas to pump to the carb Until it creates enough Suction to get the fuel to the pump. If your gas tank is low on fuel there will not be enough gas weight to have the fuel fill the hose and reach the pump.
I suggest AT LEAST have the pump even with the Fuel Outlet from the tank and you will always have fuel at the pump. A little lower would be better as you know fluids do run better downhill REMEMBER the ROMAN AQUANAUTS . Then I hear guys tell me well the FACTORY MOUNTED it there they know better which to that I say(SURE THEY DO), just like the EPA requiring the carbs to be set so lean that only will run half way decent in very hot weather. But get that scoot in below 70 degree weather and it will not run.
My .02, advice and suggestions you can do whatever you like.
Alleyoop
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Post by Kwagga on Jul 19, 2014 14:47:04 GMT -5
I would suggest that the battery be placed on a piece of rubber and not directly onto metal. If the scooter has been standing for a while, trickle charge it. If it has stood for a week or two, my Citycom needs a trickle charge, even though it cranks over for quite a while. The Sym needs a strong battery. Try and park your ride out of the weather, at least under a roof.
Even though the Citycom valves don't tend to tighten up, I must also agree that the valves need to be checked occasionally as this can also lead to hard starting.
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Post by geh3333 on Jul 20, 2014 13:04:56 GMT -5
I would suggest that the battery be placed on a piece of rubber and not directly onto metal. If the scooter has been standing for a while, trickle charge it. If it has stood for a week or two, my Citycom needs a trickle charge, even though it cranks over for quite a while. The Sym needs a strong battery. Try and park your ride out of the weather, at least under a roof. Even though the Citycom valves don't tend to tighten up, I must also agree that the valves need to be checked occasionally as this can also lead to hard starting. That's right my battery was week and would keep turning the engine over but it just wasn't quite strong enough to start it . My battery sits beneath the floor mat and it sits on plastic . |
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Post by Kwagga on Jul 20, 2014 16:17:53 GMT -5
I suggest that you use a trickle charger to get the battery to where it should be. If a battery is flat, riding it does not necessarily get it back to full.
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Post by phssthpok on Jul 20, 2014 17:23:15 GMT -5
If i park my scooter and don't start it for a couple of weeks I have to spin it over quite a few times before it will start. It seems to me the fuel bowl is going dry and the fuel won't fill the bowl as it takes pulsing vacuum to open the fuel shutoff on the bottom of the tank. if I use the scooter regularly there is no problem. Anyone have this problem? Is there a fix? My scooter isn't a daily ride, I use it on weekends only and not every weekend. If, in fact, it is an issue of the fuel bowl drying up (and not a 'weak battery' issue as others have somehow inferred), and you have a vacuum actuated petcock (not a vacuum pulse PUMP), then all you need is a steady source of vacuum to open the valve and fill the bowl. The last time I did off-engine carburetor work, I simply sucked on the vacuum line for about 30 seconds to open the valve and fill the bowl before re-attaching said vacuum line to the intake manifold. Worked like a charm...engine started up within three spins of the starter. If it's an ongoing issue, it seems to me the cheapest 'fix' would be to fit a 'T' connector into the vacuum line leading to the petcock, and add a short length of vacuum line that you can plug while running the scoot, but easily access to apply suction when you want/need to prime to bowl.  |
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Post by eman on Jul 20, 2014 21:14:15 GMT -5
Battery is good, it does get trickle charged if left sitting. Valves were just adjusted last week, new spark plug also.
Under the tank is a vacum activated fuel shutoff, tank is high up under the luggage rack and gravity feeds, don't have any pump.
My thoughts were possibly T a bulb of some sort vacum bulb in like a boat uses to prime the carb. Carb might have been replaced but it doesn't have a manual choke, does have an electical connection which must be an enrichener.
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
