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Post by xbeerd on Jul 13, 2014 22:29:42 GMT -5
Ok, so, rehashing my project from 2010 that i am just getting to finish. according to the other boards seach, i think this is where i left off. scootdawg.proboards.com/thread/35014/edit-identified-carburator-make-jets at that time. now im back and got/had it running, but now have a weird issue. so, i had a what i believe to be a stock carb layin around, so rather than trying to use that filter and rejet the other carb which i failed at, i decided to use the stock carb and i went to the junkyard and got a stock air box (yes, a junk yard here actually buys up crashed scooters, i love it). mostly 50cc but some 150s. anyways.. motor is a 2005 tank 150 i think, doesnt really matter that much i dont think as long as we know we talking the 150, has a stock airbox, and a stock exhaust. the carb on it, is standard Kihein style with exposed a/f screw. so, i got the carb on and the stock airbox, it was running pretty good for about a week, i'd get up to about 45mph or so, i didnt really try to get any more than that so maybe it could have climbed higher? then, i noticed that it started hesitating one day and within 2 days, i couldnt give it more than maybe 1/4 throttle before bogging down untill i backed off the throttle topping out about a struggling 30mph. also today i replaced the vacuum lines, the intake mani has 2 outlets, so i ran one to the carb, and one to fuel pump as previous i pulled and cleaned the carb and put it back together, (NOTE: main jet in there was 103), was messing with it a bit and well, i basically have the opposite problem i had before. NOW... the scooter runs like a champ, until i slow down to a stop and then it dies out i tried it with the stock airbox and with the ebay cone filter thing i had. i am back to stock box, it seemed the stock box was too restrictive and the cone was obviously too un restrictive. The needle in the diaphram is set with the circlip in the top, its one of the needles with 4 positions. now that im thinking about it, that would be letting the least amount of fuel thru during the upper throttle positions. the needle was originally set in the 2nd position from the bottom with a spacer on it so it was inevitably in the same space it was in now since i dont know if this carb was given to me with factory settings or not.. typically... what position would that needle have its circlip in? how many turns out would the A/F needle be? mine was at 3 full turns out from bottoming out. for the idle speed screw, how many turns past making the initial contact would that be set?also, i seem to have some fuel making its way to the vacuum line at the fuel pump?? i put a clear hose on to see it. not really sure which way its coming from, i'd guess the intake manifold. i've searched around an read enough stuff that im a bit confused and frustrated. is the 103 main jet seemingly good set? i'll try to take some better/closer pictures of my setup tomorrow.   
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 13, 2014 22:49:45 GMT -5
First and most important problem is the the Vacuum line having gas in it. Now where is your tank above the carb(petcock gravity fed system ) or lower than the Carb(Fuel Pump). So If the vacuum line has gas that means your Petcock or Fuel pump is toast get a new one. With gas being allowed to flow through the Vacuum line you cannot tune the carb correctly. Also the Clip on the needle put is in the middle slot. If after the motor gets hot (riding it) and you come to stops and it dies and you have to keep on giving it throttle to keep it going then your valves are tight and need to be adjusted. The Carb is your run of the mill keihin clone 24mm carb just like I have and have had it on since 2009 they work great. Get rid of that ugly air box and either get K&N filer like I have or a UNI, up jet to at least a 107 or 110 Main jet. Alleyoop  |
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 14, 2014 6:39:51 GMT -5
Hey thanks for the reply that is quite helpful. The tank is a bottom tank sits between the frame at your feet and the fuel pump is right by it where the frame bends and curves upwards towards the seat. The pump is about a 2.5-3" square design with vacuum line on the bottom. I could rotate it so the vac is up top but then the gas flow would be going opposite so I figure the pump is correct orientation but I'm no opposed to flipping it. I have a k&n style cone and used to have a number of jets laying around but I will heed your advise and grab some jets to try out in that range. I'd rather use that filter anyways since it looks nicer  I'll check the valve clearance, .004 is what's needed if I recall correctly |
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 14, 2014 22:42:03 GMT -5
didnt get out to look at it until after dark, therefore no pictures. but i found a petcock in my box of goodies and stuck that on my extra top tank to eliminate the old leaky fuel pump and bungee'd that tank on top the back of the seat. its lookin pretty epic, and well, oddly not out of place at all based on the rest of the scooter. i'd say definately there is something with that pump as you mentioned, i went ahead and ordered a new one.
i took the main jet out of my old carb, its either a 110 or 115, it wasnt stamped and just came in a set with each little bag labelled with the size. i know its larger than the 103, i could see it holding it up to a light. but i dont have a pin gauge, so, well, i also ordered a jet kit. with 105, 8, 10, 15, 20 etc up to 140 jets. it seemed to run better with that jet in it with the k/n type filter and moved gas tank, but still when i hit the gas and took off for maybe 100' at someting probably around 75% throttle and let off, it still dropped idle low and crapped out
i'll be checking the valve clearance next.
think its possible that the stator is going on it and its got weak spark?
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 14, 2014 22:47:56 GMT -5
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 22, 2014 20:03:36 GMT -5
i took a video today, i got the new fuel pump on, tried a 108, 110, 114 jets with the k/n style cone filter, and then i found a huge tear in the hose between my intake manifold and carb ( i had to improvise due to my setup, there is a length of hose and a 45 degree pvc bend between the carb and intake manifold). so start over, i got the 108 jet in, i got the 108 jet in and it runs and bogs down at probably over 60% throttle and i get i guess 'burps' when i turn the throttle to far open. i took a video...
you can hear the burps, i dont know if they what i read called 'carb farts' or not? I put the carb on the intake manifold, its sitting at an angle, (is that oK?) Thing was idling ok but when i went to ride it again tonight, it didnt idle for crap and would die at stop signs. it will restart and run with twist of the throttle to get it going.
thoughts about the video? you gotta turn it up a bit to hear the 'bogging down' but i did it 3 times.
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 22, 2014 20:04:44 GMT -5
oh i also checked the valves and they are at .004
the video is bogging right about the time the wind noise pics up.. dang iphone mic
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 22, 2014 20:21:07 GMT -5
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 22, 2014 22:50:49 GMT -5
k, thats waht i was leaning towards. Thanks for that link.
i was noticing that the burping happened at more with the larger sized main jets in. however, this was before i realized that big hole between my IM and Carb. so is it ok that my carb doesnt sit level (recall: my manifold is reversed, with carb pointing forward due to space)? if its not a biggie, i'd just rather leave it like it is now since its easier to get at stuff and eliminates a potential problem area.
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 22, 2014 23:12:34 GMT -5
Its ok PROVIDED the carb is LEVEL but I have seen many do this and the carb is at a very bad angle which now causes a problem with the fuel level in the bowl and the jets have a hard time sucking up fuel because they are not completely emerged in the fuel. So that right there will cause you a load of problems especailly while moving. The carb I bet is pointed upward also one other little tid bit NOT MUCH AIR gets up in front there so that also causes problems tuning.
I suggest you mount it like everyone else or figure out a way to level the carb otherwise your just going to have problems.
One guy did it cause he thought it was cool and had nothing but problems and he came on asking for help I asked for a picture and saw he had the carb and air filter facing forward and of course it was at a very bad angle up so like you I told him the same thing and he switched it back and VIOLA he is riding a happy camper.
Alleyoop
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 23, 2014 6:35:44 GMT -5
Fair enough. Maybe I'll re investigate the stock carb location. Reason I went forward was not for cool factor but out of necessity due to motor mount clearance but it might be do able with the k/n style filter. The carb was originally forward facing and level in my setup with a tension spring to retain level when engine shifted under acceleration etc.
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 23, 2014 12:44:12 GMT -5
I know your problem but You can get a curved tubing raditor hose and cut it and go under the mount to the side then put your filter on it. And since the tubing is under the mount that also helps the carb from bouncing around and your intake manifold will last longer as well. Alleyoop  |
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 24, 2014 6:36:44 GMT -5
Success... So far. Last night I got some PVC pipe and a rubber coupler from the hardware store. Not my first option but I got my carb turned around. Jack holes at the store took like 15 mins to find out the price of the dang coupler so I ran out of time to do anything other than mount the carb. Didn't get a chance to even start the sucker up.
Should have some time this weekend or tomorrow to have a go at tuning the carb along with all the rest of what I have to do (last thing I needed was another project :/)
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 24, 2014 13:02:58 GMT -5
Nice going, it will get rid of your current problems.
Alleyoop
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Post by xbeerd on Jul 24, 2014 23:06:16 GMT -5
seems as i am getting somewhere. i was messing with it tonight (why do i always end up doing this in the dark?), i have a 120 in the main, the needle is at the lowest position (so it should open sooner if i read that right) and the a/f mix screw is turned out a ton, and im accellerating and then it bogs but different than before. letting off pretty much keeps it constant, no real accelleration. so based on that website, i must be running rich now
luckily, im working from home tomorrow so that means i'll keep an ear on the phone and mess with this scoot some more.
I have a question on my enricher tho. this one when i plug it into the connector on the wiring harness. the green and yellow wires are reversed in the connector vs how they are in the harness, think its more likely that they put the connector on wrong vs wiring the wires opposite
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..BAD TO THE BONE..