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Post by alleyoop on Apr 9, 2013 18:25:44 GMT -5
Thank you very much Wutzthedeal for your honest statement. Not to many 50cc guys back me up When I try to explain to someone that wants his 50cc to get into the 40s after hearing it from someone else. I am not saying it cannot be done it is that you WILL NEED to plug in a BBK no ifs or buts about it. Now their are some 50cc scoots that will do that right out of the box but those are 2 STROKERS with bigger wheels than 10". Heck you can buy a 50cc 2 STROKER that will do in the 50s out of the box but those have EFIs and bigger wheels. But here we are talking about a 4 Stroke 139QMB motor which are the most common around. Off my rant: Now Michael, Mark your variator like this and run it up and see how much of a mark you have left. That will tell if it has some top end potenial left with minor changes without going into the motor. Alleyoop  |
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Post by prodigit on Apr 9, 2013 19:33:11 GMT -5
You got to figure out what's keeping the scooter from reaching it's max speed.
Sometimes, if the rollers are too light, they never extend the variator far enough to get maximum gear ratio.
Listen to the engine RPM, see if the bike can not give you any clues on why it's so slow (eg: RPM's increase and then hard stop from increasing, could be a rev limited CDI; sissing sounds could be a dragging brake, exhaust sounding like an iron machine, instead of strong 'PUT-PUT' sounds from a 4 stroke, may indicate the valves are wrongly adjusted or need adjustment).
Sometimes the spark plug can show you if you're running rich or lean. A blocked airway, or fuel filter could throw the ratio's off.
A leaking vacuum hose could also be the cause of lower performance.
A dragging belt or gears or tire (eg: against fender)
Most TaoTao ATM50 riders in Miami beach, I see riding with speeds averaging 40MPH, or greater.
Most modern scoots do 40MPH GPS, without performance upgrades.
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Post by alleyoop on Apr 9, 2013 19:45:08 GMT -5
That is why I suggest marking the Variator to determine what he may need in the CVT. If the belt climbs up high then you NOW know it needs more RPMS. This is pretty simple stuff, but you have to know how to DIAGNOSE not just throw out a bunch of stuff and waste your money getting this and that and you gain squat.
Alleyoop
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Post by michaeljc70 on Apr 10, 2013 16:04:14 GMT -5
Most TaoTao ATM50 riders in Miami beach, I see riding with speeds averaging 40MPH, or greater. Most modern scoots do 40MPH GPS, without performance upgrades. I disagree. These scooters are made to run under 30mph in order to meet restrictions in many states. For example, in IL if you have <50CC AND it goes less than 30mph, you don't need a special license. The TAO TAO site lists the top speed as 30-35MPH. Why on earth would they do that if the scooter easily did 40MPH? I believe the reason many people do upgrade them is to still have a <50cc (at least for licensing purposes). Otherwise, why not just buy a higher cc? I mean, many of these Chinese scooters, you can get the 150cc version for like $100 or $200 more than the 50cc version. Why spend hundreds trying to get better performance when you can get much more performance stock than you will probably ever get with upgrading without any aggravation or risk? |
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Post by michaeljc70 on Apr 10, 2013 16:07:58 GMT -5
That is why I suggest marking the Variator to determine what he may need in the CVT. If the belt climbs up high then you NOW know it needs more RPMS. This is pretty simple stuff, but you have to know how to DIAGNOSE not just throw out a bunch of stuff and waste your money getting this and that and you gain squat. Alleyoop I'll give that a try. From what I've read, these Tao Tao run very lean. I haven't checked my spark plug yet, but need to do that (I replaced it recently and the old one looked okay). I believe they are set to run lean for meeting certain emission standards in the US (CA mostly I think). |
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Post by millsc on Apr 10, 2013 16:09:51 GMT -5
Because modding is fun, simple as that I enjoy taking scoots apart and trying new parts its a hobby and a side job for me.
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Post by michaeljc70 on Apr 10, 2013 16:18:15 GMT -5
Because modding is fun, simple as that I enjoy taking scoots apart and trying new parts its a hobby and a side job for me. I get that, but the vast majority of people are just trying to a get a little better performance. It is like remodeling a house. Some people really enjoy the work/process, but most just don't want to live in a dump. |
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Post by alleyoop on Apr 10, 2013 16:33:59 GMT -5
You hit the head on the nail MICHAEL, they get the 50s so they do not need licensing and insurance, you can mod a 150+ scoot the same way. Also many had their license taken away for whatever reason and have to wait years to apply for the PRIVILEGE to drive again.
Just do what you want to do and how you want your scoot setup to get a little better performance.
And your right about the carbs being set LEAN to pass emissions. Most will act up in our temp changes, when it is cold it needs more fuel and when hot it needs less fuel so they run at their best.
Take a look at your carb and see if the FUEL RATIO MIXTURE is plugged up. You can either drill the plug out or buy an aftermarket carb with the Fuel Screw not plugged so you can adjust the fuel mixture.
Alleyoop
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Post by prodigit on Apr 10, 2013 21:53:20 GMT -5
Most TaoTao ATM50 riders in Miami beach, I see riding with speeds averaging 40MPH, or greater. Most modern scoots do 40MPH GPS, without performance upgrades. I disagree. These scooters are made to run under 30mph in order to meet restrictions in many states. For example, in IL if you have <50CC AND it goes less than 30mph, you don't need a special license. The TAO TAO site lists the top speed as 30-35MPH. Why on earth would they do that if the scooter easily did 40MPH? I believe the reason many people do upgrade them is to still have a <50cc (at least for licensing purposes). Otherwise, why not just buy a higher cc? I mean, many of these Chinese scooters, you can get the 150cc version for like $100 or $200 more than the 50cc version. Why spend hundreds trying to get better performance when you can get much more performance stock than you will probably ever get with upgrading without any aggravation or risk? Those scooters are restricted to 30MPH to meet regulations, but that's still far below their true potential. And on your second question, it seems that manufacturing hasn't caught on yet. I've been pushing the idea of a true 100 to 125cc engine a long time now for scooters! The engines exist (on cross bikes), aren't very MPG friendly, but that could be due to their small gearing (for faster acceleration, instead of city cruising). People like me, who have a motorcycle endorsement, can ride everything. We sometimes prefer the 50cc's because they have better MPG, are easy to ride, nimble, and a lot of fun. There's nothing like getting around town, inbetween cars (where a 250, or motorcycle won't get you), for a whole afternoon, on only $4 of gas. On my VT750, it would cost me ~$10 to do the same. 50cc's only downfall is acceleration between 25-35 MPH. For that reason, I personally believe that a 100cc engine would be the perfect mix of performance, affordability, and MPG, for a small scooter 1 person; also, 125cc for 2 people is good enough. Unlike a 50cc with BBK, which's MPG isn't as good, as the engine isn't optimized for best MPG. Can't wait for the second generation Chinese scoot engines to come out, based on different engines than the Honda clones. |
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Post by tockreativ on Apr 16, 2013 12:23:22 GMT -5
[replyingto=michaeljc70]michaeljc70[/replyingto]I'm 5' 6", 225lbs and have a 2011 TaoTao ATM50-A1 with 1k on the odometer and completely unmoded. GPS Verified on flat fresh asphalt is 45MPH. So, very doable.
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Post by millsc on Apr 16, 2013 13:12:23 GMT -5
the 50cc's are only geared to go so fast you can put all the parts you want in it and it will only top out at a certain speed, you have to add cc's big bore kit and other stuff then change the final gears to get them to go 50+ a 150cc scoot with 50cc gearing wouldn't top out any faster than a 50cc, gears + power to pull them = higher top speed  My scoot was maxed and topped out 48gps before the upgear got there fast but that was as fast as it could go |
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Post by dcalebro on Apr 28, 2013 21:51:01 GMT -5
I have a tao tao 50cc atm1 and it will do 50 easy on a straight road. it is all stock. just goy it 2 months ago. changed the oil after 750 miles and the rear end, abd believe it or not it will go 50. that is the reason that I put a nc tag on it. its reg. with the state of nc. some people may not believe it but it will do 50. darrell
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Post by prodigit on Apr 29, 2013 11:29:05 GMT -5
What '50' are you talking about?
50 on the speedo, or 50 on the GPS?
I believe you, because my TaoTao does 47-48MPH average, with a little wind in the back it surpasses 50MPH on the GPS. Downhill (down a long bridge) it goes almost 60MPH.
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Post by millsc on Apr 29, 2013 11:52:30 GMT -5
my t3 goes past 50 on the speedo uphill, its way off  |
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Post by bmorescooter on Apr 30, 2013 16:17:04 GMT -5
Hey-o. I bought a stock chinese scooter in the fall. It maxed out around 30mph on flat land, but living in the rolling city of Baltimore, that wasn't enough for hills or general traffic. I bought a $65 "100cc" bbk (which was bbsh-t, but definitely bigger). I also upjetted (  ) for $5 on ebay. Then I bought a $20 open air filter. I had the kit and upjet done professionally for $120 and slapped the new filter on myself. Now the bike is much faster (40mph flat with MUCH better acceleration and 35 uphill). All in all, it cost me $210, but the performance was worth it, especially given the savings on insurance and gas that a car holds. Thus, I'd recommend just springing for a bbk - doing it yourself if you are adept and want to save money - because the results are so pronounced and greatly expand the places I can comfortably drive the girl. |
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
) for $5 on ebay. Then I bought a $20 open air filter. I had the kit and upjet done professionally for $120 and slapped the new filter on myself.